[Vm-dev] Re: [Pharo-dev] Smalltalk in a C World

[Eliot Miranda]

On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 1:45 PM, phil at highoctane.be <phil at highoctane.be>wrote:

>
> Now, moving forward, what would be required to have an interpreter
> embedded in C, even if this means having another image with a special API
> and the whole enchilada?
>
> At least a working prototype.
>
> I have looked at the "Porting the VM" document and the part about headless
> (which is now done differently).
>
> What comes to my mind is to define a specific neutral C platform that
> would be able to execute basic bytecode.
>
> From videos of Ben, I saw SystemTracer (or SystemTracer2) recreating a
> very tiny image making some noise to prove it was working.
>
> Could it be possible to target this kind of tiny image running inside a C
> program through a base interpreter? This would avoid having to deal with
> the whole primitives and plugins at the beginning.
>

r u purposely ignoring me?


>
> Phil
>
> On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 9:07 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <
> stephane.ducasse at inria.fr> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> The main issue is that it is complicated to embed the VM in C code.
>> That's due to how the VM is done.
>>
>> Compared to TCL, where you can easily embed the interpreter in a C
>> program, this is a problem. http://wiki.tcl.tk/3474
>>
>> Where you can embed the interpreter in a C program, you can do whatever
>> integration you want.
>>
>> Now, with NativeBoost, we can call C. The next challenge would be to be
>> able to call Pharo from C by embedding the interpreter.
>>
>> I am curious to  see what you guys think about this.
>>
>>
>> It is one of my dream!
>> Now I'm too bad in C to make this dream comes true. Sadly. But I would
>> love to have Pharo being able to
>> be embedded in C.
>>
>>
>> I would love to see things like mod_pharo (as there is mod_php, mod_perl,
>> mod_tcl...) in Apache.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Philippe Back
>> Dramatic Performance Improvements
>> Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027
>> Mail:phil at highoctane.be | Web: http://philippeback.eu
>> Blog: http://philippeback.be | Twitter: @philippeback
>> Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/philippeback/videos
>>
>> High Octane SPRL
>> rue cour Boisacq 101 | 1301 Bierges | Belgium
>>
>> Pharo Consortium Member - http://consortium.pharo.org/
>> Featured on the Software Process and Measurement Cast -
>> http://spamcast.libsyn.com
>> Sparx Systems Enterprise Architect and Ability Engineering EADocX Value
>> Added Reseller
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 9:48 AM, kilon alios <kilon.alios at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> please note that generating dlls alone wont be enough , plugins are
>>> compiled against a runtime or specific libraries (a Plugin SDK) and
>>> Smalltalk MT would have to be able to do that in order to be a viable
>>> solution.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 10:28 AM, Stéphane Ducasse <
>>> stephane.ducasse at inria.fr> wrote:
>>>
>>>> You should think that they use their smalltalk for their projects.
>>>>
>>>> Stef
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 9, 2013, at 9:21 AM, Clément Bera <bera.clement at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> How can people even know Smalltalk MT still exist with their website
>>>> and their communication ?
>>>>
>>>> I looked at other Smalltalks a while ago, for Smalltalk MT I clicked on
>>>> "what's new" on their website and I got that:
>>>>
>>>> <Screen Shot 2013-12-09 at 9.18.11 AM.png>
>>>>
>>>> Then I thought this Smalltalk was dead (nothing new in the past 4
>>>> years) and I didn't look any further.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2013/12/8 Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse at inria.fr>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> > Yes - still alive and kicking. But I'm sure you did not notice since
>>>>> there
>>>>> > are no "big" announcements or advertising for it.
>>>>> > ObjectConnect follows the "time is better invested into technology"
>>>>> strategy.
>>>>> > It is one of the most interesting Smalltalks ever implemented.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.objectconnect.com/stmt_overview.htm
>>>>> I like the idea that you can get 50kb applications.
>>>>> Now since this is a closed system and windows-centric.
>>>>> But I like that it shows that Smalltalk does not have to be the image
>>>>> centric way.
>>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>> > The newest ST/MT 6.3 version (now 64 bit) is from end of November
>>>>> 2013
>>>>>
>>>>> Now it is not a community thing. :)
>>>>> And the web site stop and 5.6 in 2009.
>>>>>
>>>>> Last time I talk to tarrick he told me that he could control the "no
>>>>> gc in the next 250 frames on PS2"
>>>>> but it was in 1998 :)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Stef
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>


-- 
best,
Eliot
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