[Vm-dev] Concerning Plugins (was: SqueakJS)

Eliot Miranda eliot.miranda at gmail.com
Mon Nov 17 17:07:45 UTC 2014

On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 7:39 AM, Bert Freudenberg <bert at freudenbergs.de>

> On 17.11.2014, at 03:17, Igor Stasenko <siguctua at gmail.com> wrote:
> oops, pressed wrong key.. sending mail before i finished replying..
> sorry i was thinking you were talking about 'traditional' VM, concerning
> plugins
> and so, sidetracked..
> Then let me change the subject line for you. There we go.
> so i will comment what is left:
>> - some plugins are not used at all, for instance i never heard any
>> discussions (being in mailing lists since 2006 )
>> related to use of things like Klatt,
>> There is nothing to discuss. It's implemented in pure Slang. I tested it,
>> it works. Speech Synthesis is cool.
>> Cool are not synonym to useful. :)
> If you think so, then just don't build it.
> I expect from a Squeak VM to be able to run any old image. There is no
> good reason it couldn't. That is why we use *virtual* machines, because
> they can provide exactly the environment our code needs to work, even if
> the outside world changes.

I disagree.  Cog doesn't run old images so that it can be faster, easier to
maintain, and easier to evolve.  If it maintained support for all older
versions it would be much more complex than it already is, and it would be
significantly slower, essentially because supporting BlockContext correctly
has deep consequences for the context-to-stack-mapping machinery.  I agree
its great to have VMs that do run old images.  I don't agree that a
production VM has to support all those older versions.

> And it's not just about old images. It's working fine in Edgar's recent
> FunSqueak 4.6 image.
> or Genie
>> Just because *you* don't have a need for a gesture recognizer doesn't
>> mean it's useless.
> Gesture recognition is indeed useful, especially in presence of modern
> multi-touch devices.
> But, tell me who actively maintaining the image-side project that uses
> Genie plugin?
> When have you heard/seen it last time were used, able to run and working?
> Forgive me my suspicion, but it feels like it is long time dead.
> I do not want to offend anyone, especially authors of this project.. but
> if software is not actively maintained and updated, it dies with silent
> death.
> Of course, as a prudent home-owners, we could put it somewhere in our
> house (most probably on the attic in big old chest, where we collect all
> the exceptionally useful things, which are too valuable for our memories to
> throw them away).
> Exactly. It's a tiny little plugin, providing a single primitive. It
> doesn't hurt anyone to have it. If you feel strongly it shouldn't even be
> in your VM, then you simply don't include it.
> - Bert -

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