[Pharo-dev] [Vm-dev] re: Parsing Pharo syntax to C/C++
phil at highoctane.be
phil at highoctane.be
Tue Sep 16 12:55:39 UTC 2014
What would be valuable is a reading list / path to VM enlightenment.
Bluebook is useful
Then a tour of the Object Engine by Tim
Then plugin articles + Slang
The bytecode set
Context to stack mapping
Non local returns
Display/Sensor/event look/timer implementation (like in the porting
and only then one would move to more advanced topics.
I saw that Clement had a set of VM related books on his desk at INRIA,
maybe posting the list would be great!
All the best,
On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 11:48 AM, Clément Bera <bera.clement at gmail.com>
> 2014-09-16 1:46 GMT+02:00 Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda at gmail.com>:
>> Hi Ronie,
>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 2:37 PM, Ronie Salgado <roniesalg at gmail.com>
>>> I am segmenting this mail in several sections.
>>> - On Lowcode and Cog
>>> I have been working in the last week with the Cog VM, implementing the
>>> Lowcode instructions in Cog.
>> remember to send me code for integration. I'm eagerly waiting to use
>> your code!
>> Lowcode is currently a spec of new bytecode instructions. These
>>> instructions can be used for:
>>> - Implementing a C like language compiler.
>>> - Making FFI calls
>>> I am implementing these instructions using a feature of the new bytecode
>>> set for SistaV1, which is called "inline primitives". Because of this,
>>> these new instructions can be mixed freely with the standard VM bytecode
>>> set. This also allows the Sista adaptive optimizer to inline FFI calls.
>>> These instructions provides features for:
>>> - Int32 and Int64 integer arithmetic without type checking.
>>> - Pointers, with arithmetics.
>>> - Memory access and memory manipulation.
>>> - Single and double precision floating point arithmetics.
>>> - Conversion between primitive types.
>>> - Boxing and unboxing of primitive types.
>>> - Unchecked comparisons.
>>> - Native function call. Direct and indirect calls.
>>> - The atomic operation compare and swap.
>>> - Object pin/unpin (requires Spur).
>>> - VM releasing and grabbing for threaded ffi.
>>> Current I have implemented the following backends:
>>> - A C interpreter plugin.
>>> - A LLVM based backend.
>>> Currently I am working in getting this working using the Cog code
>>> generator. So far I am already generating code for
>>> int32/pointer/float32/float64. I am starting to generate C functions calls
>>> and object boxing/unboxing.
>>> During this work I learned a lot about Cog. Specially that Cog is
>>> missing a better Slang generator, that allows to force better inlining and
>>> more code reviews. There is a lot of code duplication in Cog, that can be
>>> attributed to limitations of Slang. In my opinion, if we could use Slang
>>> not only for building the VM we should end with a better code generator. In
>>> addition we, need more people working in Cog. We need people that performs
>>> code reviews and documentation of Cog.
>>> After these weeks, I learned that working in Cogit it is not that hard.
>>> Our biggest problem is lack of documentation. Our second problem could be
>>> the lack of documentation about Slang.
> Lack of documentation ?
> About Cog there are these documentation:
> Back to the future <http://ftp.squeak.org/docs/OOPSLA.Squeak.html>
> About VMMaker <http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/2105>
> Object engine
> General information <http://squeakvm.org/index.html>
> Blue book part 4
> Deep into Pharo part 4 about blocks and exceptions
> VMIL paper about Cogit
> The Cog blog <http://www.mirandabanda.org/cogblog/>
> About Spur: summary
> <http://clementbera.wordpress.com/2014/02/06/7-points-summary-of-the-spur-memory-manager/> and
> object format
> This post <http://clementbera.wordpress.com/2013/08/09/the-cog-vm-lookup/>
> And many useful class and method comments that taught me a lot.
> When I try to work with Pharo frameworks, even recent ones, it is very
> rare that I see as much documentation than it exists for Cog. Some
> frameworks are documented in the Pharo books and a few other as Zinc have
> good documentation, but in general, there are few documentation and *even
> fewer people writing documentation*. The website about Cog has existed
> for over 6 years now. I think Cog is far from the worst documented part of
>> Yes, and that's difficult because it's a moving target and I have been
>> lazy, not writing tests, instead using the Cog VM as "the test".
>> It's also difficult because the first tests to write are the hardest to
> I am so happy to have your involvement. You and Clément bring such
>> strength and competence.
>>> - Smalltalk -> LLVM ?
>>> As for having a Smalltalk -> LLVM code generator. The truth is that we
>>> will not gain anything. LLVM is a C compiler, which is designed to optimize
>>> things such as loops with lot of arithmetics. It is designed to optimize
>>> large sections of code. In Smalltalk, most of our code is composed mostly
>>> of message sends. LLVM cannot optimize a message send.
>>> To optimize a message send, you have to determine which is the method
>>> that is going to respond to the message. Then you have to inline the
>>> method. And then you can start performing the actual optimizations, such as
>>> constant folding, common subexpressions, dead branch elimination, loop
>>> unrolling, and a long etc.
>>> Because we don't have information in the actual language (e.g. static
>>> types a la C/C++/Java/C#) that tells us what is going to be the actual
>>> method invoked by a message send, we have the following alternatives to
>>> determine it:
>>> - Don't optimize anything.
>>> - Perform a costly static global analysis of the whole program.
>>> - Measure in runtime and hope for the best.
>>> - Extend the language.
>>> In other words, our best bet is in the work of Clément in Sista. The
>>> only problem with this bet are real time applications.
>> Ah! But! Sista has an advantage that other adaptive optimizers don't.
>> Because it optimizes from bytecode to bytecode it can be used during a
>> training phase and then switched off.
>> Real time applications requires an upper bound guarantee in their
>>> response time. In some cases, the lack of this guarantee can be just an
>>> annoyance, as happens in video games. In some mission critical applications
>>> the results can not be good, if this time constraint is not met. An example
>>> of a mission critical system could the flight controls of an airplane, or
>>> the cooling system of a nuclear reactor.
>>> For these application, it is not possible to rely in an adaptive
>>> optimizer that can be triggered sometimes. In these application you have to
>>> - Extend the language to hand optimize some performance critical
>>> sections of code.
>>> - Use another language to optimize these critical section.
>>> - Use another language for the whole project.
>> The additional option is to "train" the optimizer by running the
>> application before deploying and capturing the optimised methods. Discuss
>> this with Clément and he'll explain how straight-forward it should be.
>> This still leaves the latency in the Cogit when it compiles from bytecode
>> to machine code. But
>> a) I've yet to see anybody raise JIT latency as an issue in Cog
>> b) it would be easy to extend the VM to cause the Cogit to precompile
>> specified methods. We could easily provide a "lock-down" facility that
>> would prevent Cog from discarding specific machine code methods.
>> And of course, you have to perform lot of profiling.
>> Early and often :-).
>> Because we can have complete control over the optimizer, and because
>> Sista is byetcode-to-bytecode and can hence store its results in the image
>> in the form of optimized methods, I believe that Sista is well-positioned
>> for real-time since it can be used before deployment. In fact we should
>> emphasise this in the papers we write on Sista.
> The solution of Eliot makes sense.
> To write a paper about that I need benchs showing result on real time
> So there's quite some work to do before.
>>> 2014-09-15 16:38 GMT-03:00 Craig Latta <craig at netjam.org>:
>>>> Hear hear!
>>>>  http://tinyurl.com/m66fx8y (original message)
>>>> Craig Latta
>>>> +31 6 2757 7177 (SMS ok)
>>>> + 1 415 287 3547 (no SMS)
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