[Vm-dev] Snowglobe and Tether (was "WebAssembly" on vm-dev)
craig at blackpagedigital.com
Sat Dec 10 04:26:13 UTC 2016
(Followups to squeak-dev, please.)
> It would be amazing to run Cog in a web browser, and thus facilitate
> all our favourite Smalltalk dialects.
Until WebAssembly has the stack introspection that Clément
mentioned, I think the in-browser remote display of Snowglobe would
be a good alternative. Even after that, there are good use cases, just
like there are uses for VNC, etc.
Snowglobe does that sort of screen-sharing in a more convenient way
("just visit a webpage"), and supports distributed computation. The user
browser, in addition to traditional remote Smalltalk messaging. Even
just having a web browser as a launcher for local Cog systems is useful
(similar to the launchers of Parallels, VMWare, Kitematic for Docker,
EC2, Cloud9, etc. etc.), and it can be a convenient UI medium too.
> Side thought: Craig's work to incrementally download a running image
> could be useful to reducing web page startup time.
Ooh, I'm not sure I did what you think I did... Tell me more about
that feature! :) So far there's still a point where an entire snapshot
has to transmit, but you can keep using the app remotely in the
meantime. In many scenarios you just don't notice the download and
subsequent switch to local native Squeak.
> Hard to find info on Snowglobe. Only 4 million results to compete
When I add "smalltalk" or "squeak", I get  within the first five
hits on Google and DuckDuckGo ("snowglobe smalltalk" is first on
Google). Is that good enough?
Speaking of Squeak, Snowglobe isn't limited to that. It just needs
WebSockets support, which is in all the Smalltalks and web browsers now.
> I tried the demo. http://blackpagedigital.com/snowglobe
> Pretty impressive.
> The world menu is a bit sluggish for a few seconds to pop up each
Hm, I just played with it from Europe and it seemed fine. (There
are two Snowglobe app servers at the moment, in California and Germany.
Amazon's DNS chooses the one with the least latency for you.) I had to
restart the California server. What's your region?
Like all app streaming systems, performance is sensitive to
end-to-end network latency. For some lag-intolerant things, like
displaying the normal mouse cursor as you move it around, the local
SqueakJS takes over. It looks like I should do the initial display of
some of the menus similarly.
> ...but menu item highlighting is instantaneous, as is editing in the
> system Browser. However mouse point is off by about 15mm at 7o'clock
> position. Platform is 32-bit Linux Chrome Version
> 48.0.2564.116. (I guess any further discussion on this would be
> better on squeak-dev)
Ah, that bug's new to me. Yes, let's move discussion of that to
squeak-dev. For direct contact I'm on the Squeak Slack channels,
Twitter (@ccrraaiigg), Skype, etc. etc. I think Slack would be best for
getting a live group chat going.
> ...reading about "live serialization" the term "serialivation" pops
> in mind.
Hm, that could lead to libation or Live Nation, or even
Disassociated Press. (Search engines are going to love this message.)
> Snowglobe is nice indeed. But still slow on this monster of a machine
> of mine.
Hm, I suspect either the local SqueakJS didn't actually connect to
an app server, and you were just observing local SqueakJS UI
performance, or there was severe network latency somewhere between you
and the servers. I'd be happy to look at it with you.
> There is also this: http://blackpagedigital.com/tether
> UI page appears dead though.
Oops, some stale links under the hood on that page. Anyway, that
demo is superceded by the content at , which is what you get when you
visit /tether now, too.
Thanks for checking it out!
Black Page Digital
Amsterdam | San Francisco
craig at blackpagedigital.com
+31 6 2757 7177 (SMS ok)
+ 1 415 287 3547 (no SMS)
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