[Vm-dev] Slang for Cuis (WIP, experimental)

Wed May 20 02:16:20 UTC 2020

Not sure about the Socket/SUnit or FFI-Z3 issues but this JSON works fine in
5.3:

JSON - http://www.squeaksource.com/JSON.html
MCHttpRepository
    location: 'http://www.squeaksource.com/JSON'
    user: ''
    password: ''

And the latest versions (e.g. March 2013) of PetitParser & PetitParserTests
on Lukas Rengglis site work too:
MCHttpRepository
    location: 'http://source.lukas-renggli.ch/petit/'
    user: ''
    password: ''

Hope htis helps

Paul

David T. Lewis wrote
> Hi Boris,
> 
> Replying with CC to the Squeak oversight board - we have a meeting
> scheduled
> tomorrow, and I would like to put the following topic on our agenda. Let's
> see if we can to something to help. From Boris Shingarov's message:
> 
>     
>     OSTVM is hosted in Squeak.?? With all my love for Squeak, I still
> can't 
>     use it for this kind of work.?? There are blocker problems with SUnit 
>     (causes erratic behavior of Socket code which works fine outside
> SUnit), 
>     so I can't have tests, I resort to launching everything from doits.??
> I 
>     have no PetitParser.?? I have no JSON.?? I can't use my FFI-to-Z3 
>     bindings.?? In the middle of working I randomly get unexpected
> problems 
>     with access to source.squeak.org.?? And so on.
> 
> I will not even pretend to understand some of the issues being discussed,
> but things like SUnit problems and availabity of JSON (for example) are
> surely things that we can make progress on.
>     
> Dave
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 01:05:53PM -0400, Boris Shingarov wrote:
>>  
>> 
>> >Hunh - I didn't remember that at all; I thought Boris Shingarov had 
>> >been Mr OS/2-Squeak.
>> There were two OS/2 ports that did non-overlapping things because they 
>> were designed with orthogonal goals in mind.
>> 
>> Juan's port was a "real PresentationManager/2 application", but it was a 
>> real PM/2 *Squeak* in that it opened a PM/2 window and BitBlt'd the 
>> Squeak Display to that.
>> 
>> Opposite to that, the idea of "real PM/2" to me meant "Native Widgets" 
>> and I wanted to have that in Squeak.?? The problem was, in a live system 
>> (which is also "truly single-threaded"), how do I debug the 
>> "native-widget" event loop when the PM/2 is tied up by the BitBlt UI??? 
>> This meant that Juan's design wouldn't fit: I needed to somehow have all 
>> the Squeak tools but without touching PM/2.?? This was enabled by two 
>> things: (1) compiling the VM with Ian's sqXWindow.c, so Squeak would 
>> show on an X display while appearing to OS/2 initially as a headless app 
>> talking to the network, and (2) writing an FFI for the VM -- 
>> "native-widget" PM/2 calls were made via that FFI.
>> 
>> 
>> >I wouldn't be surprised if it still works. But this was never part of 
>> >the official releases.
>> I very much wanted to merge it upstream into Ian's unix port (the diff 
>> was very small).?? The desire seems weird and silly now, but back then I 
>> somehow thought it would make a difference, and I remember I was very 
>> frustrated that the merge didn't happen.?? But it *is* part of the 1.23 
>> distribution on files.squeak.org today.
>> 
>> 
>> >Later this was the base of his extremely interesting Cheese project.
>> >
>> Oh yes -- Cheese.?? This is what 3 years later led to the work on Eclipse 
>> SWT.
>> 
>> 
>> >/I started with dissecting Slang out of the Cuis VMMaker packages and 
>> >VMMakerJS (SqeakJS) project into a couple of packages which could be 
>> >used for generating anything besides VM plugins./
>> You don't need Alien plugins to do VMIL18-simulation-style development 
>> of the core VM.?? For that there is now the Smalltalk implementation of 
>> RSP, which I recently added to VMMaker.?? There is a wide choice how to 
>> run the native CPU code: various simulators (gem5 or qemu), or on 
>> production silicon under GDB, or on some FPGA prototype under OpenOCD, 
>> ... well ... really anything that knows how to speak RSP.?? This will 
>> have a number of far-reaching consequences; this margin is too narrow to 
>> explain them, but you can watch a number of my presentations on the
>> subject.
>> 
>> Where does this stand right now?
>> 
>> VMIL-18-simulation of Cog runs fine over RSP.?? VMMaker depends on a 
>> subtle inaccuracy in the Alien's emulation of instruction atomicity.?? 
>> This will cause VMMaker to fail on off-the-shelf production silicon.?? 
>> But when you modify the CPU to behave like Alien, OSTVM runs just fine 
>> (I verified on gem5).?? So it's a matter of very small fix to the Cogit 
>> to match what the stock processor is doing, before we have the full 
>> freedom to run anywhere we want.
>> 
>> 
>> The larger problem that stops me from bringing in all the rest of the 
>> system (the target-agnostic synthesizer, the binutils-in-Smalltalk, the 
>> symbolic execution engine, the superoptimizer, etc), is the lack of a 
>> usable mother-Smalltalk.
>> 
>> OSTVM is hosted in Squeak.?? With all my love for Squeak, I still can't 
>> use it for this kind of work.?? There are blocker problems with SUnit 
>> (causes erratic behavior of Socket code which works fine outside SUnit), 
>> so I can't have tests, I resort to launching everything from doits.?? I 
>> have no PetitParser.?? I have no JSON.?? I can't use my FFI-to-Z3 
>> bindings.?? In the middle of working I randomly get unexpected problems 
>> with access to source.squeak.org.?? And so on.
>> 
>> 
>> So.
>> 
>> Is there an environment where work would not be blocked by such problems?
>> 
>> Let's look.
>> 
>> >Pharo VM did not only fork the transpiled C code, they also put the 
>> >Smalltalk VMMaker code in the repository and maintain it there. They 
>> >do not use the VMMaker Monticello repository if I understand
>> >correctly. So in their repository and workflow, it really is a source 
>> >fork.
>> You must know some magic!?? something I've been begging the Pharo people 
>> for months to tell me the secret where to download that source from.?? I 
>> tried the */headless/* branch, but it doesn't even compile in Pharo.?? I 
>> tried asking on pharo-dev, but I got zero responses since February.
>> 
>> 
>> So.
>> 
>> The million-dollar question again:
>> 
>> Is there *any* environment that works well enough to do OST VM work in?
>> 
>> >I started with dissecting Slang out of the Cuis VMMaker packages and 
>> >VMMakerJS (SqeakJS) project into a couple of packages which could be 
>> >used for generating anything besides VM plugins.
>> >
>> >Atleast that's my intentiont, I don't yet know of how that project 
>> >idea will pan out, atleast I intend to learn something of how Slang 
>> >works and how it's generated.
>> >
>> >It's currently highly expiremental, but I got some of the existing 
>> >VMMaker testscases "green" and so I thought I could share the current 
>> >state of it. Maybe the whole idea of using it outside the VMMaker is 
>> >not so a good idea, maybe, maybe not :-)
>> >
>> For the reasons I just explained above, I believe it would be more than 
>> just "a good idea".?? It is critical to the viability of this whole 
>> stack.?? If your project works, it give us an environment enabling 
>> further collaboration on OSTVM.?? Well, I must admit I don't know which 
>> way is shorter / more straightforward: this, or making Squeak work.?? I 
>> would be happy either way.?? I don't care which: I have much bigger fish 
>> to fry.
>> 
>> -- boris
>> 
>>

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