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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/19/2015 04:23 PM, Eliot Miranda
wrote:<br>
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<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 11:25 PM,
Robert Withers <span dir="ltr"><<a
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href="mailto:robert.w.withers@gmail.com" target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:robert.w.withers@gmail.com">robert.w.withers@gmail.com</a></a>></span>
wrote:<br>
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<div>On 12/19/2015 02:09 AM, Eliot Miranda wrote:<br>
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<div>Hi Robert,<br>
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<div>On Dec 18, 2015, at 9:51 PM, Robert Withers <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:robert.w.withers@gmail.com"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:robert.w.withers@gmail.com">robert.w.withers@gmail.com</a></a>>
wrote:<br>
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<div><span>Eliot, what does Sista do and how is that
accomplished? </span></div>
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Run-time adaptive optimisation via an SSA-based
image-level bytecode-to-bytecode inlining compiler.
See
<div><br>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.mirandabanda.org/cogblog/on-line-papers-and-presentations/"
target="_blank">http://www.mirandabanda.org/cogblog/on-line-papers-and-presentations/</a></div>
<div><br>
<div><br>
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<div><span>It sounds like a next level kind of
system. Does it compare to what other JITs
are doing in various VMs?</span><br>
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<div><br>
</div>
Yes it does. Clément recently attended a
workshop at Google and found that Sista is very
similar in the kinds of optimisations it
performs to V8 and Dart. The key research
funding will be how close the performance of
targeting stack-oriented bytecode that the Cog
JIT converts to register-based code can be made
to JITs that directly target register-based
machine code.</div>
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<br>
This sounds like you are saying that Sista performs
better or more naturally with stack-oriented bytecode.
If you wouldn't mind taking the time to explore it with
us, what's the difference between stack-oriented and
register-based code, such that Sista would be different
between them? I'm off to read some.<br>
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<div>I'd rather not. That's something there's lots of papers
on, and I'm not sure it's really important that I
explain. Yoiu can inform yourself, and the Sista talks I
pointed to at least mention the topic. I will say that
our thesis is that we can generate efficient
register-based machine code from stack-oriented bytecode,
and that's one of the things we're trying to demonstrate
with Sista.</div>
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<br>
Having had a little bit of sleep, upon waking I just have to say I
am disappointed in this response. As a seeker of knwoledge, I'm
certainly willing to research deeply, yet that is a time investment
when I also have a full plate. Nonetheless, the negative response to
a search of knowledge is indicative of an attitude I often find and
it is a real shame, a real shame for everyone. I reread what I wrote
and yes, in the scope of an exploration, as I said, denotes a big
time investment to dive deep. You could have said so, not a big time
investment, but go towards more of a paragraph then a sentence in
helping to feed me when I was hungry. A more paranoid personality
that lives within me thinks it may have been something I personally
did to garnish a more negative response, but I'm convinced it was
the way I broached.<br>
<br>
You see how I talk myself out of being frustrated? I try to stand in
your shoes, for a moment, without ego nor assuming the worst. It
works.<br>
<br>
<br>
alright then, best,<br>
robert<br>
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<div><span
style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">_,,,^..^,,,_
(phone)</span></div>
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<div><span></span><br>
<span>thank you,</span><br>
<span>robert</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>. .. ...
^,^</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>On 12/18/2015 11:11 PM, Eliot Miranda
wrote:</span><br>
<blockquote type="cite"><span> Further,
please keep the original Smalltalk
non-primitive implementation around do
that when we deliver Sista we can see
how well we stack up against C.</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>_,,,^..^,,,_
(phone)</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>On Dec 18,
2015, at 5:59 PM, David T. Lewis <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:lewis@mail.msen.com"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lewis@mail.msen.com">lewis@mail.msen.com</a></a>>
wrote:</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>On Fri,
Dec 18, 2015 at 08:13:00PM -0500,
Robert Withers wrote:</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>On
12/18/2015 08:07 PM, David T.
Lewis wrote:</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>If you
are implementing your algorithm
from scratch, then it would be</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>nice if
it could be done in Smalltalk,
because that means we can all</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>read it,
play with it in the image, and
write unit tests to validate and</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>document
its behavior. We can figure out
the translation to C afterwords,</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>once you
have a good implementation in
Smalltalk (and yes I will help</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>with
that).</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>I have a
smalltalk implmentation that came
from Google Java code and is</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>fully
implemented in squeak/pharo. I am
intermittently fixing byte</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>mutations
in the payload, so it is working to
a degree. Check out the</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>classes
GenericGF, GenericGFPoly and
GaloisField to see the insides.</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>FECEncoder
and FECDecoder are calling the
galoisField which builds a</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>ReedSolomon
Decoder. That last is where the
error detection occurs.</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>Thank you
all very much for looking out!</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>I guess my
suggestion would be that once you have
a fairly good working</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>implementation
that you are comfortable with from a
functional point of</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>view, then
let's look at which methods in that
implementation would benefit</span><br>
</blockquote>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>from being
translated to primitives in C. It
would be especially good if</span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>you can run
a profiler on your Smalltalk
implementation and see where the</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>time is
being spent. Those would be the things
we would want to turn into</span><br>
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</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>primitives.
But first things first, let's get it
working 100% (not "to a</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>degree") and
then we can do the translation to
primitives.</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Dave</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
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<span></span><br>
<span>-- </span><br>
<span>. .. .. ^,^ robert</span><br>
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<br>
<div>-- <br>
<div align="left">. .. .. ^,^ robert </div>
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<div><br>
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-- <br>
<div class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><span
style="font-size:small;border-collapse:separate">
<div>_,,,^..^,,,_<br>
</div>
<div>best, Eliot</div>
</span></div>
</div>
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<br>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<div align="left">. .. .. ^,^ robert
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