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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p style='margin-left:.5in'>Hi Shaping,<o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Hi Robert. (We’ll get back to the parallelizing any day now…)<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'>On 5/16/20 8:47 AM, Shaping wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:1.0in'>Can you tell me about those efforts? I know the VM is one, maybe the biggest. What else do Squeak folks work on?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:1.5in'> I also understand why the developers of the new Pharo preferences tree did not like to invest the same effort in Squeak. What incentive would they have?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Make all features (GUIs/frameworks) loadable into a new, mostly empty image.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p><o:p> </o:p></p><p style='margin-left:.5in'>Andso, here we have the biggest challenge to doing such sharing. You say all features should be loadable into either image. The issue is that Pharo has driven forwards in creating new load formats, such as Tonel. I tried to load up the Tonel format, but failed.<o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Who oversees stuff like this?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Specifically, why don’t we now make Tonel avaibable on Squeak, with the objective of equalizing access to source code, so that we can use one image ultimately—a nice steady gradual drift toward one image, so that no one is in too much pain at any one point in time.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Why wasn’t this done when Tonel was first created? The Pharo dev probably didn’t see it as good use of dev time. I kindly suggest that this attitude change for all contributors to both Smalltalks.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>How long is the list of format-related code/frameworks that need to be equalized, so that Squeak and Pharo can always load the same things?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin-left:.5in'> I couldn't get distracted from my core work.<o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Sure, I feel the same. I imaging that most of us do. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin-left:.5in'>NO EFFORTS have been made to have Squeak able to load such formats, and the Pharo folks have deprecated the existing Montecello load format,<o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>In my Pharo 9 I have a bit these bits:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Gofer new<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository';<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> package: 'ConfigurationOfAida';<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> load.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfAida) load.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Metacello new<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> baseline:'Seaside3';<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> repository: 'github://SeasideSt/Seaside:master/repository';<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> load<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>So does this that mean Pharo strictly uses only Metacello and Git for version control now?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p style='margin-left:.5in'> from a long time in Squeak. In particular, it is not possible to load a Monticello Configuration Map in Pharo and Squeak can't load the newer formats Pharo has created.<o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Yeah, that’s not healthy for the community.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p style='margin-left:.5in'> So there is no commonality of load systems between Squeak/Pharo. It totally sucks.<o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Agreed. Thanks for plainly saying so. We need more of that.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p style='margin-left:.5in'> That is step number one to having features co-loadable, common load systems.<o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Agreed.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin-left:.5in'> I recall someone from the Pharo side being disparaging to the Monticello load format, so there is no interested in making features cross-image. NONE. ZERO! It is a hard fork. So sad. :(<o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>It is very sad. Let’s fix it.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Don’t the Consortium have an interest in such things? Are the Consortium so Pharo-centric that they view Squeak as a useless blob of programming IP? I don’t think so. <b>If there is genuine respect for the value of Squeak and Pharo on both sides, allowing their continued divergence and the many attendant frustrations to mount is negligent and wasteful. <o:p></o:p></b></span></p><p><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> Can we stop doing that?<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>I’m under the impression that Pharo folks want ultimately to use only Git, and that even the Metacello will be phased out. Is that correct? What is the version-control plan on Pharo, and can we implement the same plan—whatever that is--for Squeak too?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Shaping<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></body></html>