Elections March 2006

elections@lists.squeakfoundation.org

6 participants
7 discussions

RE: [Elections] Stepping down (and stepping up)
by Peter Crowther 07 Mar '06

07 Mar '06

> From: Peter Crowther > Sent: Thu 3/2/2006 8:00 AM > <shrug> Then why does this team exist? [...] > So: From here, what are the objectives for this team? ... Anybody? - Peter

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RE: [Elections] Stepping down (and stepping up)
by Peter Crowther 02 Mar '06

02 Mar '06

> From: goran(a)krampe.se > "Peter Crowther" <Peter(a)ozzard.org> wrote: > > 1. Board replaces team leader with someone who will co-operate; > > 2. New team leader removes unwanted member. > Ehm... an *extremely* vague possibility though. I hope so, yes. > Sure, but... well, the team model doesn't actually say that the board > has the ability to *replace* a team leader. It just says the board > assigns the team leader that is willing to do it. And if that leader > steps down the next leader is also officially "assigned" by the board. > > This is at least my interpretation of my own words and my own thoughts > at the time when I wrote them ;). Fair enough. Evidently I put a different interpretation on it. > Personally I think we have bigger fish to fry than to dream > up these odd unlikely scenarios. <shrug> Then why does this team exist? We have an apparently-working board selection process (nobody seems to have complained about the process, just the timescale); we have a team model; we have a board that is presumed by the model to be incorruptible and infallible. What work is left for this team to do under those assumptions? It had previously been mooted that this team would go on and look at more general governance issues. If that's still on the agenda - and it may not be - then I would argue that it is exactly these odd, unlikely scenarios that need examination. To use a programming analogy: if we're going to come up with robust code, we have to consider exceptions. I'd rather the exception block was something other than [self halt: 'Erm... I don't know what to do now.']. So: From here, what are the objectives for this team? - Peter

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RE: [Elections] Stepping down (and stepping up)
by Peter Crowther 02 Mar '06

02 Mar '06

> From: Daniel Vainsencher > Well, this named "king" has asked for either volunteers to run for > leader instead of him, or this teams support. What say you? You have my support. I'm commenting on the process, not the person. - Peter

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RE: [Elections] Stepping down (and stepping up)
by Peter Crowther 02 Mar '06

02 Mar '06

> From: Brent Vukmer > I'll be stepping down from the Elections Team soon. > I've appreciated the chance to lead this team, but don't have the > commitment necessary to set aside the time for it. Sorry to hear that, although it's not unexpected. Thanks for the effort you've put in to lead this team to its first, successful, election. Are you planning to stay as a team member? > Ken Causey and I have asked Daniel whether he's willing to serve as > team leader. I'll let Daniel post his thoughts about it. I think > he's a good choice. Just a dumb question. We've just given the Squeak community a process to allow it to select the people who will lead it. That process was agreed after considerable discussion. We have the bootstrapping question of how the elections team itself is constituted - who's in it, who leads it. Is this the most appropriate way of selecting the leader of this team? To be clear, I also think Daniel's a good choice. I'm raising an eyebrow at the selection process, not its conclusion. - Peter

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RE: [Elections] Stepping down (and stepping up)
by Peter Crowther 02 Mar '06

02 Mar '06

> From: goran(a)krampe.se > but do recall that the current Team > model says that the assignment of team leaders is formally done by the > board: http://www.squeak.org/Community/Teams/ Yes. I think that is a very effective mechanism in general. However, the elections team *may* (or may not) be special. Let me outline my thinking, and see what you think. In essence, somebody needs to decide whether the Elections team is supposed to be independent of the Board (and visibly so) or whether it is to remain under the control of the Board. This is akin to the separation of powers between the legislature (those who make the laws), the executive (those who ensure that the laws are put into effect) and the judiciary (those who arbitrate in disputes about the laws) in some political systems, notably the American system (and notably not the English system, which is horribly confused). Such separation of powers is usually enshrined in some form of constitution, and is designed to ensure that no one part of the system can go on the rampage. Some parts of such systems are notoriously political - for example, who appoints the head of the judicial system? At present, the Board can remove any member from any team and can assign team leaders - and are sometimes willing to use that power unilaterally, as Ken has recently demonstrated. There is no limit to the Board's power within the team system, and it is solely accountable to the wider community at some appropriate interval. We (the community and the board, as the elections team has no standing at present) may wish matters to stay like that, or we may wish to put some checks and balances in place - for example, by separating out a group of people to devise a constitution and/or revise the voting process in the light of feedback. If that group is separated, we should think about matters such as separation of powers. We may want to construct some similar system. If this is the group that is presently the elections team, we may wish to make it independent of some of the normal team machanisms. - Peter

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RE: [Elections] Stepping down (and stepping up)
by Peter Crowther 01 Mar '06

01 Mar '06

> From: goran(a)krampe.se [mailto:goran@krampe.se] > No. The board can't "remove any member from any team". At > least not that I am aware. :) 1. Board replaces team leader with someone who will co-operate; 2. New team leader removes unwanted member. I'm not saying it ever has or ever will happen; I'm merely noting the possibility that's built into the present structure. > Mmmm, I don't agree. The team model explicitly says that the > Team leader "is King" of the team. Yep. And the Board is kingmaker. - Peter

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Stepping down (and stepping up)
by Brent Vukmer 01 Mar '06

01 Mar '06

Well, election 0.1 is over. I think it went alright. There's certainly plenty of food for thought for the next time around. Several folks on the squeak-dev thread about the election said that it felt rushed. I agree. One of the reasons that it felt rushed was me, unfortunately. I'll be stepping down from the Elections Team soon. I've appreciated the chance to lead this team, but don't have the commitment necessary to set aside the time for it. Ken Causey and I have asked Daniel whether he's willing to serve as team leader. I'll let Daniel post his thoughts about it. I think he's a good choice. Thanks, Brent

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Elections March 2006