etoys-dev November 2008

etoys-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org

24 participants
22 discussions

[Etoys] unable to keep current projext: duplicate selector
by Markus Schlager 14 Dec '08

14 Dec '08

Hi all, Using etoys in class (11th grade in Germany) on Linux (ubuntu gutsy) several pupils had the problem not to be able to save their porject due to an 'error: duplicate selector'. This error shows up as well, when they are dragging a 'players'-tool from the supplies flap into the world. Some debug-logs for these two situations are attached. I'm not sure, what they did wrong. Since several pupils had this problem already, this might be a rather common mistake. Maybe they had a variable and a script with the same name, or they deleted a script and created another one having the same name. Unfortunately I don't know what they did, and they weren't able to tell me what they had done that might cause the problem. Any ideas? Markus ----------------------------------------------- Markus Schlager m.slg(a)gmx.de

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Re: [Etoys] Finding the cursor on the screen
by Jerome Peace 04 Dec '08

04 Dec '08

[Etoys] Finding the cursor on the screen *** >Bert Freudenberg bert at freudenbergs.de >Wed Nov 26 05:03:29 EST 2008 > > >On 26.11.2008, at 04:37, Jerome Peace wrote: > >> Finding the cursor on the screen >> >> >> As for finding the cursor on the screen, >> you could have the computer watch it for you. :) >> >> Take a pair of MovingEyeMorphs out of the parts bin >> (In etoys pull the object catalog out of the toy chest. >> the moving eyes are in the just-for-fun catagory.) >> and put them somewhere convenient on the screen. >> (Squeaks mouse logo used to serve this function.) > > >That's a cool idea! By embedding it in the tool flap it even follows >across projects. > >Now, we could add that to a new release. But I'm wondering how we >could support this mod without having to store a new image ... Hmm. I was thinking of this (and describing it) as something a user would do manually when needed. I hadn't though of providing it "ready to go". And of course that leaves the problem of how do kids and teachers stumble upon the solution. For which your idea is a good response. The other thought is to have a world menu item like 'help me find my cursor' that opens the eyes. That could be a changeset addition. Ah. Could you provide a pair of eyes as a saved morph? (e.g. Help me find my cursor.morph). Would that help users stumble upon it? I'm not familiar enough with the olpc enviorment to come up with a better suggestion. Yours in curiosity and service, --Jeorme Peace

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[Etoys] Botsinc free
by stephane ducasse 04 Dec '08

04 Dec '08

Hi all I'm happy to announce that my book BotsInc http://smallwiki.unibe.ch/botsinc will be free soon (in fact it is since 23 september). I would like to thank ESUG http://www.esug.org for supporting financially the buying of the book rights and giving the book to the kid world. A catalan version will be available really soon thanks to jordi delgado! (Yes the french were not the first this time... We were the first for the etoy book and squeak by example. :)) If you want to participate to a translation please contact me. I will be setting up soon an infrastructure to support any language translation. Stef ------------------------ Stéphane Ducasse USTL - LILF - CNRS UMR 8022 - INRIA stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr "if you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you do different? ... especially if, by doing something different, today might not be your last day on earth" Calvin&Hobbes Tel 33 3 59 57 78 66 - Fax 33 3 59 57 78 50 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza, Villeneuve d'Ascq, FR-59650, France.

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[Etoys] Squeakfest 2009
by Marta Voelcker 28 Nov '08

28 Nov '08

Hello everybody, This is Marta from Porto Alegre - Brazil. It is time to continue to plan and decide things about Squeakfest 2009. My colleagues and I have been talking and we are enthusiastic to hold a gathering in Porto Alegre on July 23rd to 25th ( Thursday to Saturday). Another International Conference about IT for Ed - WCCE -world conference in computers for education is going to take place near Porto Alegre in the following week - July 27th to 31st. We thought that some of the people coming for Squeakfest would get interested in attending WCCE and vice versa. Please visit their website - <http://www.wcce2009.org> www.wcce2009.org. I think this conference is very relevant to our community. It is still possible to submit papers if you are interested! The deadline is December 31st. The Squeakfest would be a gathering for teachers, educators and school coordinators -- a time for Etoy fun and a general get together. We will certainly plan for the participation of some researchers and students as well, but the goal of the conference would be for participants to share how they are using Etoys, or plan to use it, share ideas, experiences, material and strengthen Etoy community bonds. We would also welcome teachers and reps from OLPC schools from Latin America and the Caribbean and if possible, from other countries. Wouldnt it be awesome?! Children from Luciana de Abreu School would certainly attend, present their Etoy projects and, as they are used to doing at conferences, take pictures and interview you guys with their XOs! What do you think about it? Let me know your ideas Is the time of the year good for you? Do you know this WCCE? ( Ive never hear about it before! Isnt it a huge coincidence?! We have been considering Squeakfest 2009 in Porto Alegre since Jan, and then this WCCE is going to be hold in here too?! ) Well enough questions for just one email!!!! I hope to hear from you during the weekend! All the best, Marta Voelcker

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[Etoys] A low floor "Paint" door into eToys
by Caroline Meeks 26 Nov '08

26 Nov '08

Hi, I was playing with Paint and it wasn't very satisfying, there are much more fun painting programs including for Linux. My goal is to go into a school where kids who have used KidPix and give them a drawing program that they won't think is "lame". But I also want it to be usable to a younger sibling that hasn't used a computer very much. Ed pointed out that eToys has great paint tools. We discussed this on IRC and the desired use case is. A young child wants to draw. They open up an icon that clearly says "I want to draw". What this opens is a UI or "room" in eToys with a UI that is a lot like the Paint program. After the young child has created that drawing, or maybe 6 months later, it should be easy to move on and do more. But when I start it can't be too easy to pull up a zillion buttons that confuse me. the hope is to create classic low floor - high ceiling. Make it easy for the kid who is at the stamp pad state to move seamlessly over a couple of years to making eToy projects. Is creating a new UI for eToys the right way to do this? Is sugarizing Tux Paint better? I will be doing a pilot of Sugar on a Stick next Sept in a Boston Public School and this is just one item of many important ones, so I'm hoping to be a cheer leader not a leader in making something happen. thanks, Caroline -- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove Caroline(a)SolutionGrove.com 617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax

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[Etoys] Finding the cursor on the screen
by Jerome Peace 26 Nov '08

26 Nov '08

Finding the cursor on the screen As for finding the cursor on the screen, you could have the computer watch it for you. :) Take a pair of MovingEyeMorphs out of the parts bin (In etoys pull the object catalog out of the toy chest. the moving eyes are in the just-for-fun catagory.) and put them somewhere convenient on the screen. (Squeaks mouse logo used to serve this function.) Hth, Yours in curiosity and service, --Jerome Peace

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[Etoys] Drawing with the mouse. (third send attempt)
by Jerome Peace 26 Nov '08

26 Nov '08

Drawing with the mouse. Note: This somehow got delivered in two pieces. Here it is pieced back together again (maybe). It seems some problem is breaking off the end of this note a delivering it as a no subject email. This is the third and final attempt to deliver it in one piece. Hope the third times the charm. -Jer The gui problem is that it is hard to draw good lines with a mouse. The cursor becomes a lot more managable for drawing when it slowly moves the pen tip. That is, the amount of motion to move the pen a little bit must be larger for drawing than for pointing. If you miss while pointing that's no big deal you correct and get there. With drawing you want control as you draw so the pen object needs to move much slower than the cursor. This is not too hard (for a developer) to do. Instead of tracking cursor position you track the total movement vector scaled down. And add that to the target (in this case the pen objects) current position each time. If the cursor and pen object get too far out of sync you just release the mouse. Move the cursor back over the pen and start dragging it again. The eye focuses on the moving pen. The hands quickly learn to adjust. The pen object can be whatever size you like. It does not have to be "picked up". It can just be "moved along" (as when you drag the brown halo.) Hth, Yours in curiosity and service, --Jerome Peace

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[Etoys] Drawing with the mouse.
by Jerome Peace 26 Nov '08

26 Nov '08

Drawing with the mouse. Note: This somehow got delivered in two pieces. Here it is pieced back together again. -Jer The gui problem is that it is hard to draw good lines with a mouse. The cursor becomes a lot more managable for drawing when it slowly moves the pen tip. That is, the amount of motion to move the pen a little bit must be larger for drawing than for pointing. If you miss while pointing that's no big deal you correct and get there. With drawing you want control as you draw so the pen object needs to move much slower than the cursor. This is not too hard (for a developer) to do. >From a mouse move event, instead of tracking cursor position you track the total movement vector scaled down. And add that to the target (in this case the pen objects) current position each time. If the cursor and pen object get too far out of sync you just release the mouse. Move the cursor back over the pen and start dragging it again. The eye focuses on the moving pen. The hands quickly learn to adjust. The pen object can be whatever size you like. It does not have to be "picked up". It can just be "moved along" (as when you drag the brown halo.) Hth, Yours in curiosity and service, --Jerome Peace

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[Etoys] Drawing with the mouse.
by Jerome Peace 26 Nov '08

26 Nov '08

The gui problem The cursor becomes a lot more managable for drawing when it slowly moves the pen tip. That is, the amount of motion to move the pen a little bit must be larger for drawing than for pointing. If you miss while pointing thats no big deal you correct and get there. With drawing you want control as you draw so the pen object needs to move much slower than the cursor. This is not too hard (for a developer) to do. >From a mouse move event, instead of tracking cursor position you track the total movement vector scaled down. And add that to the target (in this case the pen objects) current position each time. If the cursor and pen object get too far out of sync you just release the mouse. Move the cursor back over the pen and start dragging it again. The eye focuses on the moving pen. The hands quickly learn to adjust. The pen object can be whatever size you like. It does not have to be "picked up". It can just be "moved along" (as when you drag the brown halo.) Hth, Yours in curiosity and service, --Jerome Peace

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Re: [Etoys] A low floor "Paint" door into eToys
by Jerome Peace 26 Nov '08

26 Nov '08

[Etoys] A low floor "Paint" door into eToys *** >K. K. Subramaniam subbukk at gmail.com >Mon Nov 24 07:10:48 EST 2008 > > >On Saturday 22 Nov 2008 12:48:36 am Yoshiki Ohshima wrote: >> I haven't forgotten your suggestion, but it still doesn't have the >> thing unfortunately. But, I can show how you would do. I made a >> little Etoys project. Download this: >> >> http://dev.laptop.org/~yoshiki/etoys/SimplePaint.005.pr >This is still modal. I found young children (non-English) have trouble >dealing >with such modal painting environments without "training". The paint tools are >not child-friendly. The tool cursors has no visual feedback of the picked >color. The circle cursor even has its hot spot at 10 O'clock instead of the >center. The auto popup color panel is a major irritant. Just move the cursor >from the upper part of onion skin towards "clear" or "toss" to see what I >mean. Whatever happened to the principle of least astonishment? > >Children learn to compensate for these irritants over time but is a modal >paint tool really necessary? Many of the paint tool functions can be achieved >if we allow children to "embed" or "stamp" by a press-n-hold or lay pen >trails using hold-n-drag. A child can spend more time "thinking" than >worrying about missteps. > >Subbu *** +1 Squeak instead of having a paint "program", could take a snapshot of any assembled morph. The snapshot could be shrunk or enlarged while maintaining its aspect ratio. By making a background, embeding some morphs, then moving the embedded morphs around between snapshots you could create a stop action sequence. Suitable for putting in a holder. The snapshots themselves shrunken or enlarged could become part of the next snapshot. There is a lot of expressive power in this. Especially when you have MixedCurveMorphs (Subbu's daughter's putty) to work with. :) Something like this exists on 3.9 and 3.10. I hooked the snapshot up to the halos via shift-viewer halo button. My holding object was a thumbnail image morph. This could easily be modifed to be a sketch instead. (Someone told me that image morphs should be prefered over sketches. I was foolish enough to believe them.) One of my problems was that there was no easy way to free hand paint. My run at solving that was to extract Takashi's great HDLT-Draw from an experimental tweak image and get it working in 3.9. I got it working well enough to prove proof of concept. That project is on the shelf right now. It uses some Flash drawing objects that were removed from 3.10. I don't know if there is any other interest in this approach. But code is available in 3.9 and 3.10 to play with or adapt for etoys. Yours in service and curiosity, --Jerome Peace

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etoys-dev November 2008