etoys-dev September 2009

etoys-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org

30 participants
68 discussions

Re: [squeakland] Re: the reasons for ranking
by Karl Ramberg 09 Jun '10

09 Jun '10

On 2009-09-30 17:20, Kim Rose wrote: > Hey, John, > > Nice to see you are still around and interested -- hope you are doing > well. Thanks for the comments. > > As for me and Viewpoints -- there is one reason only for ranking and > that is filtering in an attempt to bring the best educational examples > and those illustrative of etoys' strengths to the attention of the > community. So, I, for one, am hoping that those "voting" are not > voting for any particular child, author or person, but for the example > itself -- I hope those voting/ranking are asking "is this a fine > exemplar to help teach a concept, principle, or powerful idea?". The > more the example answers back with a "yes" the higher the rank. Also, > the more complete an example the higher the rank. How disclosing of > what the Etoy is meant to do is in the example? Does it have an > explanation of what it is? If it is a game does it have instruction > on how to play and the goal of the game? A googlish way of ranking is to use links/ references to a projects. If teachers/users could make a group or curriculum of projects on the site, we could rank from the refs to projects. I tried to rank a few project, but it's quite hard to do. There are to many things to consider. I'm not a teacher, so for me to rank appropriateness of a project for a classroom situation is not really realistic Karl > > I hope that teachers who encourage their students to upload projects > will *only* allow sharing if their student provides an "About" flap, > or some intro/explanation of the Etoy and some instruction on where to > start, the aim of the project, etc. The most beautiful simulation of > something will fall completely flat with someone if they have no real > idea of what they are looking at or what the script they are playing > with is meant to do. Etoys are intended to teach and help us learn; > learning cannot occur without context. No author should assume their > project will be self disclosing; it will not. Our users have a > variety of levels of expertise in both Etoys and subject matter areas; > providing more context can only help. > > If there is no "ranking" in place and everything is posted the > offerings soon get overwhelming and most difficult to navigate. We > found this years ago when we had an active "super-swiki". Projects > that were no more than a single sketch with no script at all were > posted and only "muddied the waters" for those wading in an attempt to > find something with some meaningful content. > > I hope the community will bear this in mind when "ranking" what gets > uploaded and understand that not everyone can be represented in a > featured showcase. > -- Kim > > > On Sep 30, 2009, at 7:58 AM, voiklis wrote: > >> Hello all, >> >> I apologize for joining this conversation so late; I am a longtime, >> though recently quiet, member of the community. >> >> I understand that the ranking system is an attempt to enable people >> to judge the quality of a contribution (or contributor) based on some >> directly observable measure of reputation. On first sight, one could >> argue that such a system overcomes the problem that in the >> face-to-face world reputation is not directly observable. In order to >> get an honest assessment of a person's reputation, one has to invest >> a lot of time building trust with the people familiar with that >> person. Even then, a trustworthy assessment requires direct >> observation of the person's actions. >> >> A ranking system would appear to reduce that effort by half; knowing >> the person's reputation among his/her peers, one only needs to assess >> the work. >> >> The problem with that reasoning is that electronic ranking systems >> are highly susceptible to manipulation. Building reputation becomes >> the goal of the activity for many people and they use all sorts of >> seemingly harmless social and technological means to inflate their >> numbers. Our lab has been studying this phenomenon through both >> observational studies of online communities and laboratory >> experiments. The two papers below report on the phenomenon as it >> presents itself in Digg, the news aggregation site. >> >> The first paper demonstrates that a tit-for-tat game of reciprocity >> inflates the reputation of contributors and their contributions >> without reflecting anything substantive about their contributions. >> The second paper really brings out the negative consequences of this >> phenomenon. The paper reports on an experiment where people judged >> how interesting they found the contribution. The ranking values of >> the articles were set by the investigator; sometime the rank of the >> article was set high, at other times low. Experimental subjects rated >> higher-ranked contributions as more interesting than lower ranked >> contributions. The same article was rated as highly interesting when >> its rank was set high and uninteresting when ranked low. Duncan Watts >> (of small-world networks fame) observed the same phenomenon with >> music rating. >> >> What this means in the present discussion is that people will likely >> ignore low ranking contributions. Worse still, when they do actually >> look at those contributions they are likely to see what the ranking >> value led them to expect rather than the qualities of the >> contribution itself. >> >> Unless we can find scientific research that demonstrates any benefits >> to ranking, I think we should be wary of using such systems. >> >> All best, >> >> John >> >> Sadlon, E., Sakamoto, Y., Dever, H. J., & Nickerson, J. V. (2008). >> The karma of Digg: Reciprocity in online social networks. In R. Gopal >> and R. Ramesh (Eds.), Proceedings of the 18th Annual Workshop on >> Information Technologies and Systems. >> http://cog.mgnt.stevens-tech.edu/~yasu/papers/reciprocity.pdf >> >> Sakamoto, Y., Ma, J., & Nickerson, J. V. (2009). 2377 people like >> this article: The influence of others' decisions on yours. In N. >> Taatgen, H. van Rijn, L. Schomaker, and J. Nerbonne (Eds.), >> Proceedings of the 31st Annual Conference of the Cognitive Science >> Society.http://cog.mgnt.stevens-tech.edu/~yasu/papers/cogscidigg1.pdf >> >> Salganik, M. J., Dodds, P. S., and Watts, D. J. (2006). Experimental >> study of inequality and unpredictability in an artificial cultural >> market. Science, 311(5762):854-856. >> http://dx.doi.org/10.1126/science.1121066[/url] >> >> >> >> >> -------------------- m2f -------------------- >> >> (from forum) >> http://squeakland.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=11554#11554 >> >> -------------------- m2f -------------------- >> _______________________________________________ >> squeakland mailing list >> squeakland(a)squeakland.org >> http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland > > > Viewpoints Research is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization dedicated to > improving "powerful ideas education" for the world's children and > advancing the state of systems research and personal computing. Please > visit us online at www.vpri.org > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Squeakland mailing list > Squeakland(a)squeakland.org > http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland >

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etoys-dev meet today at 19:00 GMT on #etoys
by Timothy Falconer 09 Jun '10

09 Jun '10

Hi everyone, As before, we'll be having a software meet on the IRC freenode channel #etoys at 19:00 GMT (3pm ET, 12 PT). You can also attend by clicking "chat" on squeakland.org. It might be helpful to watch the two preview videos here: http://squeakland.org/resources/audioVisual/ Also, have a look at the current Etoys 4 roadmap: http://tracker.squeakland.org/browse/SQ?report=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.sy… Take care, Tim

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popups in project-info
by Scott Wallace 31 May '10

31 May '10

Hi, Tim, and all, Attached is a fileout providing changes to the project-info dialog as requested for the benefit of the "showcase" on Squeakland.org. Basically, the "project info" dialog now contains three "enumerated" items, "Subject", "Age", and "Region". These three are all governed by pop-ups (in local language) rather than by type-ins. The results are included in the project manifest. Important notes: (1) It is essential that this be filed in to an image updated at least through update 2246PolygonFix-kfr. If filed in to an earlier image, subsequently loading updates will clobber some of the changes provided here. (2) Yoshiki is also modifying code in the EToyProjectDetailsMorph area in this same time-frame, so integration is likely to be necessary before our two fileouts are published. (3) There are a few obvious rough edges which someone may wish to tweak, though I don't know of any show-stoppers. For example, this has always been an English-only dialog, but now that the field names are localized, there may be layout issues in some languages (once translations are available.) Also, for the pop-up fields, if they've never been set they show as blank, whereas once they've been set to "(none)" (equivalent to blank) they show the text "(none)". Probably we should always show "(none)" when values for these three popups have not been supplied. Also, since some of the fields are now type-in and some are pop-ups, perhaps some UI convention (slight color difference?) should be used to hint at whether a field functions as a type-in or a pop-up. (4) This turned out to involve quite a bit of code, most of it written with a fever and at very late hours. So there's the distinct possibility of errors. I did test it briefly and it seemed to work as I expected. HOWEVER: it really needs verification by someone else. (5) The Preamble (please read if planning to test or use): -=------ Change Set: projectInfoPopUps-sw Date: 8 August 2009 Author: Scott Wallace Changes to the project-info dialog, in support of new data desired for the 'showcase' on squeakland.org: - 'Sub-Category' removed. - Subject, Age, and Region are added as pop-ups. - Choices for Subject, Age, Region popups, and corresponding codes, obtainable from web-site. - Project manifest now includes Age, Subject (category,) and Region info. The codes are strings of numbers, e.g. '554' as a Subject code means 'Language Arts' (look in #defaultAgeTriplets, #defaultSubjectTriplets, #defaultRegionTriplets on class-side of EToyProjectDetailsMorph.) - Names of fields are presented to the user in localized form. - Choices for values of pop-up fields are presented to the user in localized form. Notes: - There is support provided for obtaining up-to-date lists of the subject, age, and region alternatives from the web site (see EToyProjectDetailsMorph class updateTripletsFromWebSite) but it is not actually called at this point, out of concern for potential for long delay if connection to web site is slow. - The *region* codes are at present *not* obtained from the web-site (even when the user explicitly calls #updateTripletsFromWebSite,) but rather a 'fake' set of regions, basically the continents, is provided. This is probably temporary. We have no reasonable way to confront the user with a pop-up showing 250 choices. However, as per Tim's request, I have made it a point to include Antarctica in the region list. (Tim: look at method #defaultRegionTriplets for the current point of departure, if you want to adopt that, temporarily at least, on the web site. And/or of course change any defaults as needed. ----------- Cheers, -- Scott

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Re: [JIRA] Commented: (SQ-154) Make it simple to show and hide the toolbar
by Scott Wallace 20 Dec '09

20 Dec '09

On Jul 16, 2009, at 9:25 PM, jira(a)immuexa.com wrote: > [ http://tracker.immuexa.com/browse/SQ-154?page=comments#action_35752 > ] > > Milan Zimmerman commented on SQ-154: > ------------------------------------ > > This makes sense. I am out of time now, but will test tomorrow or > early weekend. Thank you, Milan! By mutual agreement among Bert, Yoshiki, and me, we decided to push the latest fixes embodied in SQ-88, SQ-154, and SQ-257 to the etoys4.0 update stream today. This will make it easier for more people to test, and we still have time before squeakfest/brasil to fix any issues that may arise. Cheers, -- Scott

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Re: [JIRA] Updated: (SQ-479) Font for textual script too large
by Bert Freudenberg 05 Oct '09

05 Oct '09

Great, thanks Ricardo! When you attach a changeset, you should also resolve the ticket so it appears in our "ready for testing" filter: http://tracker.squeakland.org/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?mode=hide&requestI… Also, our naming convention for changesets calls for appending your initials at the end. And a changeset preamble (press Alt-P to add one) serves as documentation, which for example is used to generate the change log: http://squeakland.org/updates/ But except for these formalities, your changeset is good. Hope to see more :) - Bert - On 29.09.2009, at 23:11, tracker(a)squeakland.org wrote: > [ http://tracker.immuexa.com/browse/SQ-479?page=all ] > > Jorge Ricardo Moran updated SQ-479: > ----------------------------------- > > Attachment: etoyCodeFontSmaller.1.cs > > This change set changes the default etoy code font to size 15. > >> Font for textual script too large >> --------------------------------- >> >> Key: SQ-479 >> URL: http://tracker.immuexa.com/browse/SQ-479 >> Project: squeakland >> Type: Bug >> Components: etoys >> Reporter: korakurider >> Attachments: etoyCodeFontSmaller.1.cs >> >> >> Currently 24point font is used. It seems hard to review whole of >> script because scriptor is not resizable and only few lines of >> script can be shown in scriptor window. 15point seems sufficient >> to me. > > -- > This message is automatically generated by JIRA. > - > If you think it was sent incorrectly contact one of the > administrators: > http://tracker.immuexa.com/secure/Administrators.jspa > - > For more information on JIRA, see: > http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira >

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Jira crashed
by Korakurider 04 Oct '09

04 Oct '09

I cannot even login. ---- 500 Servlet Exception java.io.FileNotFoundException: /home/immuexa/webapps/jira/META-INF/MANIFEST.MF at com.caucho.vfs.JniFilePath.openReadImpl(JniFilePath.java:196) at com.caucho.vfs.Path.openRead(Path.java:635) at com.caucho.server.deploy.ExpandEntry.expandArchive(ExpandEntry.java:155) at com.caucho.server.deploy.ExpandEntry.deploy(ExpandEntry.java:133) at com.caucho.server.deploy.Entry.startImpl(Entry.java:465) at com.caucho.server.webapp.WebAppEntry.startImpl(WebAppEntry.java:94) at com.caucho.server.deploy.Entry.redeployIfModifiedImpl(Entry.java:428) at com.caucho.server.webapp.WebAppEntry.redeployIfModifiedImpl(WebAppEntry.java:94) at com.caucho.server.deploy.Entry.handleAlarm(Entry.java:535) at com.caucho.util.Alarm.handleAlarm(Alarm.java:323) at com.caucho.util.Alarm.run(Alarm.java:293) at com.caucho.util.ThreadPool.runTasks(ThreadPool.java:464) at com.caucho.util.ThreadPool.run(ThreadPool.java:408) at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:595)

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How to get a nice EToys based development environment?
by Simon Guest 02 Oct '09

02 Oct '09

Hi again, From time to time (well, during school holidays), I experience a strong desire to hack some Smalltalk. Since I'm trying to make more use of EToys, the EToys dev image is where I start. However, it still seems harder than expected to get SqueakMap and Monticello loaded, so I can then get Shout and eCompletion from SqueakMap. (I think I mentioned this difficulty during a previous school holiday ...!) Currently, the best way I know is to use LevelPlayingField (which gives me a working SqueakMap and Monticello), then I have to manually revert methods in SARInstaller to invoke ChangeSorter>>removeChangeSet rather than ChangeSet>>removeChangeSet (which doesn't exist) following a suggestion from Subbu on squeak-dev (thanks!). If I try to use SqueakMap without LevelPlayingField, it gets confused trying to upgrade from version 2.0 to version 2.2, and I don't know how to fix that. Am I unusual in wanting to do this? Is there a better thing to do? cheers, Simon

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Control-C causing lockup
by Simon Guest 01 Oct '09

01 Oct '09

Hi EToy-dev people, I've found an annoying bug introduced in Etoys 4.0 dev somewhere between update 2192 and 2325, which causes control-C to give a hard lockup. I reported it on the bug tracker, http://tracker.squeakland.org/browse/SQ-484 Is that enough? Or should I also raise it here? (Like this ;-) Any ideas on the bug? cheers, Simon

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by electronicblue 30 Sep '09

30 Sep '09

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Re: [sq-everyone] the great showcase debates
by Karl Ramberg 30 Sep '09

30 Sep '09

On 2009-09-30 20:13, Timothy Falconer wrote: > Hi everyone, > > This email's an attempt to summarize the various points that have been > made regarding the showcase in recent months. We're about to talk > about at the education meet, but I'd like everyone's opinion since the > showcase affects all of Squeakland, not just the education team. > > Currently the four sticking points are: > > 1) whether the "featured" and "everyone" sections should have > different names, different looks, different rules, and different > navigation I think it ok as it is. > > 2) whether "everyone" projects should be ranked at all Ranking is kind of hard. So many things to consider... > > 3) whether moderation (hiding a project due to inappropriate content) > should be separate from ranking (giving points to projects to allow > sorting) Separate the two Inappropriate should be a pretty clear cut kind of EULA you agree to when you sign up to to get an account. Some moderators should be allowed to do this, users should be able to flag projects to notify moderators. > > 4) whether to show account levels with colored dots, and if so, how to > calculate them no opinion Karl > > > I'd like everyone to state your opinion here, particularly those that > have been silent up until now. > > If you have no opinion, than say that. If you agree with one > person's views, than say that. If you're tired of the bickering, > than say that too :) > > Take care, > Tim > >

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etoys-dev September 2009