etoys-dev January 2010

etoys-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org

13 participants
24 discussions

Re: [squeakland] Re: the reasons for ranking
by Karl Ramberg 09 Jun '10

09 Jun '10

On 2009-09-30 17:20, Kim Rose wrote: > Hey, John, > > Nice to see you are still around and interested -- hope you are doing > well. Thanks for the comments. > > As for me and Viewpoints -- there is one reason only for ranking and > that is filtering in an attempt to bring the best educational examples > and those illustrative of etoys' strengths to the attention of the > community. So, I, for one, am hoping that those "voting" are not > voting for any particular child, author or person, but for the example > itself -- I hope those voting/ranking are asking "is this a fine > exemplar to help teach a concept, principle, or powerful idea?". The > more the example answers back with a "yes" the higher the rank. Also, > the more complete an example the higher the rank. How disclosing of > what the Etoy is meant to do is in the example? Does it have an > explanation of what it is? If it is a game does it have instruction > on how to play and the goal of the game? A googlish way of ranking is to use links/ references to a projects. If teachers/users could make a group or curriculum of projects on the site, we could rank from the refs to projects. I tried to rank a few project, but it's quite hard to do. There are to many things to consider. I'm not a teacher, so for me to rank appropriateness of a project for a classroom situation is not really realistic Karl > > I hope that teachers who encourage their students to upload projects > will *only* allow sharing if their student provides an "About" flap, > or some intro/explanation of the Etoy and some instruction on where to > start, the aim of the project, etc. The most beautiful simulation of > something will fall completely flat with someone if they have no real > idea of what they are looking at or what the script they are playing > with is meant to do. Etoys are intended to teach and help us learn; > learning cannot occur without context. No author should assume their > project will be self disclosing; it will not. Our users have a > variety of levels of expertise in both Etoys and subject matter areas; > providing more context can only help. > > If there is no "ranking" in place and everything is posted the > offerings soon get overwhelming and most difficult to navigate. We > found this years ago when we had an active "super-swiki". Projects > that were no more than a single sketch with no script at all were > posted and only "muddied the waters" for those wading in an attempt to > find something with some meaningful content. > > I hope the community will bear this in mind when "ranking" what gets > uploaded and understand that not everyone can be represented in a > featured showcase. > -- Kim > > > On Sep 30, 2009, at 7:58 AM, voiklis wrote: > >> Hello all, >> >> I apologize for joining this conversation so late; I am a longtime, >> though recently quiet, member of the community. >> >> I understand that the ranking system is an attempt to enable people >> to judge the quality of a contribution (or contributor) based on some >> directly observable measure of reputation. On first sight, one could >> argue that such a system overcomes the problem that in the >> face-to-face world reputation is not directly observable. In order to >> get an honest assessment of a person's reputation, one has to invest >> a lot of time building trust with the people familiar with that >> person. Even then, a trustworthy assessment requires direct >> observation of the person's actions. >> >> A ranking system would appear to reduce that effort by half; knowing >> the person's reputation among his/her peers, one only needs to assess >> the work. >> >> The problem with that reasoning is that electronic ranking systems >> are highly susceptible to manipulation. Building reputation becomes >> the goal of the activity for many people and they use all sorts of >> seemingly harmless social and technological means to inflate their >> numbers. Our lab has been studying this phenomenon through both >> observational studies of online communities and laboratory >> experiments. The two papers below report on the phenomenon as it >> presents itself in Digg, the news aggregation site. >> >> The first paper demonstrates that a tit-for-tat game of reciprocity >> inflates the reputation of contributors and their contributions >> without reflecting anything substantive about their contributions. >> The second paper really brings out the negative consequences of this >> phenomenon. The paper reports on an experiment where people judged >> how interesting they found the contribution. The ranking values of >> the articles were set by the investigator; sometime the rank of the >> article was set high, at other times low. Experimental subjects rated >> higher-ranked contributions as more interesting than lower ranked >> contributions. The same article was rated as highly interesting when >> its rank was set high and uninteresting when ranked low. Duncan Watts >> (of small-world networks fame) observed the same phenomenon with >> music rating. >> >> What this means in the present discussion is that people will likely >> ignore low ranking contributions. Worse still, when they do actually >> look at those contributions they are likely to see what the ranking >> value led them to expect rather than the qualities of the >> contribution itself. >> >> Unless we can find scientific research that demonstrates any benefits >> to ranking, I think we should be wary of using such systems. >> >> All best, >> >> John >> >> Sadlon, E., Sakamoto, Y., Dever, H. J., & Nickerson, J. V. (2008). >> The karma of Digg: Reciprocity in online social networks. In R. Gopal >> and R. Ramesh (Eds.), Proceedings of the 18th Annual Workshop on >> Information Technologies and Systems. >> http://cog.mgnt.stevens-tech.edu/~yasu/papers/reciprocity.pdf >> >> Sakamoto, Y., Ma, J., & Nickerson, J. V. (2009). 2377 people like >> this article: The influence of others' decisions on yours. In N. >> Taatgen, H. van Rijn, L. Schomaker, and J. Nerbonne (Eds.), >> Proceedings of the 31st Annual Conference of the Cognitive Science >> Society.http://cog.mgnt.stevens-tech.edu/~yasu/papers/cogscidigg1.pdf >> >> Salganik, M. J., Dodds, P. S., and Watts, D. J. (2006). Experimental >> study of inequality and unpredictability in an artificial cultural >> market. Science, 311(5762):854-856. >> http://dx.doi.org/10.1126/science.1121066[/url] >> >> >> >> >> -------------------- m2f -------------------- >> >> (from forum) >> http://squeakland.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=11554#11554 >> >> -------------------- m2f -------------------- >> _______________________________________________ >> squeakland mailing list >> squeakland(a)squeakland.org >> http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland > > > Viewpoints Research is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization dedicated to > improving "powerful ideas education" for the world's children and > advancing the state of systems research and personal computing. Please > visit us online at www.vpri.org > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Squeakland mailing list > Squeakland(a)squeakland.org > http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland >

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etoys-dev meet today at 19:00 GMT on #etoys
by Timothy Falconer 09 Jun '10

09 Jun '10

Hi everyone, As before, we'll be having a software meet on the IRC freenode channel #etoys at 19:00 GMT (3pm ET, 12 PT). You can also attend by clicking "chat" on squeakland.org. It might be helpful to watch the two preview videos here: http://squeakland.org/resources/audioVisual/ Also, have a look at the current Etoys 4 roadmap: http://tracker.squeakland.org/browse/SQ?report=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.sy… Take care, Tim

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popups in project-info
by Scott Wallace 31 May '10

31 May '10

Hi, Tim, and all, Attached is a fileout providing changes to the project-info dialog as requested for the benefit of the "showcase" on Squeakland.org. Basically, the "project info" dialog now contains three "enumerated" items, "Subject", "Age", and "Region". These three are all governed by pop-ups (in local language) rather than by type-ins. The results are included in the project manifest. Important notes: (1) It is essential that this be filed in to an image updated at least through update 2246PolygonFix-kfr. If filed in to an earlier image, subsequently loading updates will clobber some of the changes provided here. (2) Yoshiki is also modifying code in the EToyProjectDetailsMorph area in this same time-frame, so integration is likely to be necessary before our two fileouts are published. (3) There are a few obvious rough edges which someone may wish to tweak, though I don't know of any show-stoppers. For example, this has always been an English-only dialog, but now that the field names are localized, there may be layout issues in some languages (once translations are available.) Also, for the pop-up fields, if they've never been set they show as blank, whereas once they've been set to "(none)" (equivalent to blank) they show the text "(none)". Probably we should always show "(none)" when values for these three popups have not been supplied. Also, since some of the fields are now type-in and some are pop-ups, perhaps some UI convention (slight color difference?) should be used to hint at whether a field functions as a type-in or a pop-up. (4) This turned out to involve quite a bit of code, most of it written with a fever and at very late hours. So there's the distinct possibility of errors. I did test it briefly and it seemed to work as I expected. HOWEVER: it really needs verification by someone else. (5) The Preamble (please read if planning to test or use): -=------ Change Set: projectInfoPopUps-sw Date: 8 August 2009 Author: Scott Wallace Changes to the project-info dialog, in support of new data desired for the 'showcase' on squeakland.org: - 'Sub-Category' removed. - Subject, Age, and Region are added as pop-ups. - Choices for Subject, Age, Region popups, and corresponding codes, obtainable from web-site. - Project manifest now includes Age, Subject (category,) and Region info. The codes are strings of numbers, e.g. '554' as a Subject code means 'Language Arts' (look in #defaultAgeTriplets, #defaultSubjectTriplets, #defaultRegionTriplets on class-side of EToyProjectDetailsMorph.) - Names of fields are presented to the user in localized form. - Choices for values of pop-up fields are presented to the user in localized form. Notes: - There is support provided for obtaining up-to-date lists of the subject, age, and region alternatives from the web site (see EToyProjectDetailsMorph class updateTripletsFromWebSite) but it is not actually called at this point, out of concern for potential for long delay if connection to web site is slow. - The *region* codes are at present *not* obtained from the web-site (even when the user explicitly calls #updateTripletsFromWebSite,) but rather a 'fake' set of regions, basically the continents, is provided. This is probably temporary. We have no reasonable way to confront the user with a pop-up showing 250 choices. However, as per Tim's request, I have made it a point to include Antarctica in the region list. (Tim: look at method #defaultRegionTriplets for the current point of departure, if you want to adopt that, temporarily at least, on the web site. And/or of course change any defaults as needed. ----------- Cheers, -- Scott

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Development repository for Etoys
by Korakurider 02 Feb '10

02 Feb '10

Hello. When will the replacement of svn.squeakland.org go live? I think the fact we don't have central repository has been real blocker to make any development go forward. /Korakurider

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Waveplace Plans to Help Haiti
by Timothy Falconer 27 Jan '10

27 Jan '10

Hi everyone, After talking non-stop with dozens of people and groups over the last two weeks, Waveplace has settled on a plan to help Haiti in the coming four months. Tonight I've uploaded three videos describing this plan. Please forgive the roughness of my presentation (and my tired haggard look). This was simply the quickest way for me to put the details of the plan online for all to see. I will be transcribing the videos tomorrow for those that would rather read text. Here are the videos: 1. PRINCIPLES ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzXtQgfZi3I 2. PLAN ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgEl1v14NOY 3. NEEDS ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JmMhRPzLys The transcription will be here: http://haiti.waveplace.com We welcome the ideas and labor of all who care to help. To keep up to date with Waveplace's work in Haiti . . . 1. follow us on twitter ... http://twitter.com/waveplace 2. join our facebook group ... http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/group.php?gid=450936535242 3. read our blog ... http://waveplace.com/news/blog/ We'll be posting several times a day for the foreseeable future. Please spread the word. For bigger news, you can also subscribe to our newsletter: http://waveplace.com/subscribe/ If you'd like to help, then please contact us: http://waveplace.com/contact/ Take care, Timothy -- Timothy Falconer Waveplace Foundation http://waveplace.com 610-797-3100

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Congratulations on Censoring the Roulette Project
by Steve Thomas 22 Jan '10

22 Jan '10

My Dear Wormwood (apologies to C.S. Lewis and "The Screwtape Letters") Much congratulations are in order for you success in preventing the Roulette project from being published on the Squeakland Website. But do not put down your guard, the enemy is always watching for an opening. Guide your patients reading and be careful to keep them off this email list and away from original works such as the letters of Fermat and Pascal (try and block their browsers from viewing http://www.york.ac.uk/depts/maths/histstat/pascal.pdf ) One way to do this is convince those in Charge of Censorship that the letters between Fermat and Pascal are all about gambling and will lead the poor wretched little creatures into a depraved life of crime. Convince them that they know what is best for the little vermin and that they are doing a good deed by protecting them from Gambling. Do NOT at any point mention Probability and Statistics, such powerful ideas in the minds of small children are dangerous to our cause. Unfortunately the idea that small humans should learn Probability and Statistics has caught on amongst those who are normally our allies in keeping people ignorant. That said all is not lost and your mistake in letting the concept of P&S into schools (for which you will be severely punished) should not cause irreparable harm. I am working on our unwitting allies (well meaning School Administrations, Standards Testers and Textbook publishers) to Assimilate those ideas into the school culture and promote them as wonderful abstract ideas where the important part is not the ideas themselves and how you can use them, but the ability to manipulate symbols without any ties to the real world or other subjects. Or if they insist on the concrete, use the idea of taking a survey to determine what color M&M a particular girl is most likely to enjoy. I am working to convince them that their goal is scoring well on Standardized Tests (preferably multiple choice as it is easier for them to administer). Then they can say what a wonderful job they did and feed their own hubris and/or work on their insecurities. I encourage you to keep in place the mechanism of delaying publishing a project until it has been reviewed or better yet 3 to 5 days after they publish it. Hopefully this will discourage our enemies and the small little vermin they call "children", so that they never come back. Remind them they are protecting their precious little ones and doing a great service to humanity (don't mention actual children or the worse things they are exposed to in the real world). Also re-enforce their misguided notion that if they allow words like "mojo" they will scare off schools from using Etoys. Their desire not to offend anyone will help mute much of their effectiveness. Remind them that the other key to success is to try and please everyone. Do not let them look for counter evidence on that disgusting Scratch Site. If they do a search there and see what kind of projects there are and how it has expanded around the world in such a short time, all is lost. Remind them that they can do better and Re-Inventing the wheel will help them do their part for humanity (while keeping them away from the enemies more effective tasks). Keep their minds off the most elementary of ideas that they should see what motivates children, observe how children learn and listen to them. We don't want them to see the simplistic design of our enemy and see what works. 1) Keep their minds on high and mighty powerful ideas in their most minimalistic and abstract forms. 2) Avoid the concrete representations of the ideas, convincing them that anytime they present the concrete or use metaphor they will mislead and in some way and miss the beautiful and subtle distinctions they have come to appreciate as they themselves became experts. 3) Hide from them the methods and ways in which the ideas were developed. 4) Keep from them good problems and original works that will help children learn and develop deeper understanding. 5) Discourage documenting how they learn and Reflection (here I am thinking about that villainous fellow Carlos) I am most worried about Yoshiki, that follower of the enemy who tried to post the Roulette game. Ensure he does not tell where else he may have posted it (probably on that deplorable SuperSwiki2 site from that tiny Island in the Pacific). Fortunately it is probably posted in Japanese so we can limit the potential damage. We must continue to prevent what the enemy considers Good Projects (those that the small vermin are motivated to use/learn and remix) being translated into other languages so that others can learn from it (I wish the enemy would bring back the Tower of Babel again, but that was a one shot lucky one for us). Do not waste too much time on Mr. Steve, he is an obnoxious little twit who has an gift for offending those he really cares about and is trying to support. His style of humor, which he believes is well meaning, has the wonderful side effect of keeping some people focused on being offended and away from any ideas he is trying to discuss. Your Affectionate Uncle Screwtape

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waveplace haiti update
by Timothy Falconer 22 Jan '10

22 Jan '10

Hi all, Tim Falconer from Waveplace & Squeakland. Just a quick update to let everyone know that the schools and kids from our two Haitian pilots, and the upcoming one in Matanwa, are all alive and safe for now. The building in Petit-Riviere was spared, and luckily the Port-Au-Prince children were moved to the new facility in Williamson just prior to the earthquake. Our chief mentor, Bill Stelzer, is in Port-Au-Prince now . . he's helping with the schools and filming. He & Suzie have been on CNN twice in the last two days (http://haitichildren.org). I'm now in Cambridge MA in talks with MIT and OLPC. A plan is forming, which we'll be announcing soon. Many thanks for all the kind words from everyone! Take care, Tim -- Timothy Falconer Waveplace Foundation http://waveplace.com 610-797-3100

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Re: Fwd: How can I tell if a Scripting Tile is moved into a script?
by Steve Thomas 20 Jan '10

20 Jan '10

Stephen wrote: >> >> Folks, >> >> I am working on a Etoys Tutorial similar to Etoys Challange and I want to be able to detect if certain tiles were used >>(or not used), so that I can provide "pop up" hints to users. >> >> I tried creating a script on a "Scripting Tile Holder", but as soon as I move the "Scripting Tile Holder" the script >> disappears (literally, off the screen and it is removed from the object). >> >> To recreate: Open Etoys Challenge, then create a script for one the Scripting Tiles (ex:Car forward by 10), then move >> the Scripting Tile with you mouse and the script disappears. >> >> Another possible solution would be to somehow use reflection to see what is in a particular script, but I would need >> help in figuring out how to do that. Yoshiki responded: > I think this is a tricky one. As you found out, Scripting Tile >Holder is transient. As soon as you pick it up, the green fringe >around the tile goes away; it means that the Scripting Tile Holder for >that tile goes away along with the scripts and tiles. One may think >that the Phrase Tile (inside the Scripting Tile Holder) may retain the >identity, but once it is dropped into a scriptor, it results in a copy >of original and also loses scripts. > > - One approach is to look at the scriptor and visit recursively the > tree structure of tiles in there and found out what kind of > commands (and Test) are used. If you want to go this way, I or > somebody should be able to provide a short code snippet that does > it. > > - Another approach would be to make the playfield that contains these > phrases intelligent, and whenever a phrase is taken out from it, it > assumes that it is "used". (Not perfect because it may be just moved > to the world). Again, if you want to go this way, I or somebody should > be able to provide a short code snippet that looks at the elements > in the playfield and tells you what kind of tiles inside. > >I would guess that the first approach would be more "faithful" in >guiding the user, but still there is a mechanism to compare the >current situation and the goal and decide what kind of information to >provide to the user... > >-- Yoshiki Yes I would definitely prefer the more "faithful" solution. If you would be kind enough to provide the code snippet (preferably inside an Etoys Challenge project so I can see how it works) I will work on learning squeak enough to modify it for my needs and work on the mechanism's to compare current to goal and provide the information based on results and timing. Thanks, Stephen

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Localization for Squeak products
by Andreas Raab 19 Jan '10

19 Jan '10

Hi - We're looking into localizing our products at Teleplace and I'm looking around for options in this area. If I understand it correctly, Etoys have been localized in many languages. What I'm curious about is what the localization process looks like in practice: * What needs to be done to support localization in Etoys when writing code? I.e., historically all that was needed was a call to #translated, but I'm not sure if that's still the case with the move to "standard" solutions. * What are the tools to create new localizations of Etoys? I.e., what does a translator start with as input and what is created as the result? What tools are used to create one from the other? How do you check for completeness? * How does localized deployment work with Etoys? I.e., what are the options for providing localized downloads vs. downloading all supported locales and switching dynamically upon startup? * Generally speaking, how do people feel about localization in Etoys? Is it considered to work well, or is it considered to be a painful process? Are there any obvious alternatives one should look at? Thanks for any help and pointers you can provide. Cheers, - Andreas

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Fwd: How can I tell if a Scripting Tile is moved into a script?
by Steve Thomas 19 Jan '10

19 Jan '10

Folks, I am working on a Etoys Tutorial similar to Etoys Challange and I want to be able to detect if certain tiles were used (or not used), so that I can provide "pop up" hints to users. I tried creating a script on a "Scripting Tile Holder", but as soon as I move the "Scripting Tile Holder" the script disappears (literally, off the screen and it is removed from the object). To recreate: Open Etoys Challenge, then create a script for one the Scripting Tiles (ex:Car forward by 10), then move the Scripting Tile with you mouse and the script disappears. Another possible solution would be to somehow use reflection to see what is in a particular script, but I would need help in figuring out how to do that. Thanks, Stephen

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etoys-dev January 2010