etoys-dev May 2013

etoys-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org

13 participants
12 discussions

discussion at yesterday's ed meeting
by Kathleen Harness 02 Jun '13

02 Jun '13

Hi Avigail, I found my way into the meeting, it was just Rita and me but we had a good conversation. I have an idea for iPad Apps that could showcase several people's projects in individualized Apps so the iTunes store would have a series of Etoys for people to choose among. Free to download. Perhaps the hard part of making Etoys for the iPad could be done once but that what was packaged could be changed pretty easily and the new Apps could go up over time as the projects were ready and a developer had time to swap things in and out. Examples: Etoys Points of View: Avigail's Simulations Etoys Points of View: Rita's Projects for Illusions Etoys Points of View: Steve's Mathematical Projects Etoys Points of View: Kathleen's Games and Puzzles etc Perhaps there are other people who would like to do something like this too. I chose the phrase Points of View to reflect our history and connections to Viewpoints Research Institute. The projects for each POV could be added to the Etoys Examples already available so the 26 that are there now would be the same for each App but the 25-50 new ones would be there too. In this way we would be able to show how many ways there are to use Etoys but the sets would be coherent according to the author's POV. My projects act and look quite different from the others, as do yours, Steve's, and Rita's. Since I really don't know what is involved from a developer's point of view, I just offer this as something for discussion. Kathleen

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Etoys live CD?
by Casey Ransberger 28 May '13

28 May '13

It seems insane that it's so hard to get a Squeak VM installed. Maybe we need something like Etoys but geared towards the things IT administrators care about and identify with! Especially the word "no." I've worked with a lot of IT people who say "security" when what they really mean is "it would take work to evaluate the threat model and I don't feel like doing it so no." One approach I've found which sometimes works is to make everything so easy for them that they feel guilty about saying no. Has anyone thought of doing an Etoys live CD? There would be nothing to install, Etoys can already save projects to other machines, right? Just a thought. Doesn't really assuage security concerns, but those are mostly B.S. anyway. Does make IT person mostly irrelevant (you wouldn't need their help. Just the knowledge of how to enable CD or USB booting and access to the reset button, and the live media (CD DVD or thumb drive.) If you used a DVD you could probably keep like a million projects on the disc too.

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Re: [etoys-dev] Etoys in Javascript
by Harness, Kathleen 26 May '13

26 May '13

Jecel, 97%, sounds good to me. There are early projects from 7 or 8 years ago that are not as well done as the later ones. As I became a better teacher, so too did my student's projects. I do not understand all the steps a visitor to our site would need to take to get one of those projects to open. The fewer steps the better, the fewer roadblock hurdles to get over the better especially for young children or cautious adult beginners. Have a good weekend, it is sunny and cool here. Regards, Kathleen ________________________________________ From: etoys-dev-bounces(a)squeakland.org [etoys-dev-bounces(a)squeakland.org] on behalf of Jecel Assumpcao Jr. [jecel(a)merlintec.com] Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 2:37 PM To: etoys-dev(a)squeakland.org dev Subject: Re: [etoys-dev] Etoys in Javascript Kathleen Harness wrote: > > Let's keep "compatibility with current projects" at the top of our requirements > > for the changes to Etoys being considered here. I fully agree with that priority. Note that we were talking about a completely new Etoys and not a changed one. I was just trying to make clear what the cost of the different options are. > > I know Bert mentioned this recently and I am very grateful that he values what > > we have been doing here in Illinois. > > > > If the library collection of projects on EtoysIllinois will not run in Etoys it would > > be the end of us. We can not meet again with the hundreds of students who > > made those projects. > > > > The example projects and lesson materials were developed in classrooms and > > reflect years of experimentation with project ideas that make programming > > relevant to young children's interests and knowledge. Yes, that is far more important than any specific Etoys feature in my opinion as well. In the Squeak community, after Edgar De Cleene it is likely that I have been the most vocal about keeping old stuff working. Bert Freudenberg wrote: > would converting the projects be okay? Meaning, suppose the "Javascript Etoys" > couldn't read the old project files directly, but there was a way to export a project > from Squeak Etoys into another file that could be imported by Javascript Etoys, > would that be sufficient? That sounds like an interesting plan. I had only though about putting all of the conversion work in the new system, but it is true that some things are easier to do inside the original system. It might be the case that getting 100% of the projects converted is really hard but 97% is reasonably easy. It would be a good idea to find out, specially if the 3% turn out not to be among the most important projects. -- Jecel _______________________________________________ etoys-dev mailing list etoys-dev(a)squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev

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Etoys in Javascript
by Harness, Kathleen 24 May '13

24 May '13

Hi Jecel, Let's keep "compatibility with current projects" at the top of our requirements for the changes to Etoys being considered here. I know Bert mentioned this recently and I am very grateful that he values what we have been doing here in Illinois. If the library collection of projects on EtoysIllinois will not run in Etoys it would be the end of us. We can not meet again with the hundreds of students who made those projects. The example projects and lesson materials were developed in classrooms and reflect years of experimentation with project ideas that make programming relevant to young children's interests and knowledge. Kathleen

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Re: [etoys-dev] FW: CS4K8 Etoys Workshop
by Harness, Kathleen 24 May '13

24 May '13

Jecel, Thanks for the information. Matt's comment about Chromebooks in Unit 4 was not the first district in our area to buy sets of these computers. It is not an isolated trend, is it? The closed shop policy of Chromebooks is in direct contradiction of Google's efforts to increase the number of people who know how to program. We are presenting our 4th year workshop, Introduction to Programming with Etoys, with a CS4HS grant from Google. It has made a difference we can see and has built connections between the university and public school districts who are trying to include more young students in some kind of CS course. Our middle schools piloted Etoys this year and I have seen some terrific projects from 6-8th graders. Next year we are piloting Etoys in an elementary school where 20 of the teachers studied Etoys in a five day workshop. They will learn Etoys and how to adapt it to their instructional materials and classroom routines. I have looked at Snap but still prefer Etoys.The big companies have money to burn and we do not have a cent. If we had the money, what would developers do with Etoys. Kathleen ________________________________________ From: etoys-dev-bounces(a)squeakland.org [etoys-dev-bounces(a)squeakland.org] on behalf of Jecel Assumpcao Jr. [jecel(a)merlintec.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 5:52 PM To: etoys-dev(a)squeakland.org Subject: Re: [etoys-dev] FW: CS4K8 Etoys Workshop Kathleen, > There is already very simple App that looks like Scratch called Hopscotch > for the iPad. So, how are they getting Scratch on Chromebooks and iPads? Note that Scratch 2.0 (being released right now) uses Flash, so it won't run on iPads. I would guess that Chromebooks wouldn't have any problems with it, but am not sure. But there is a version in Javascript, called Snap!, that works just fine on all these machines. http://snap.berkeley.edu/ > It is beginning to seem more urgent that Etoys adapt to these new rather > closed box machines. Etoys has been adapted, but isn't allowed by Apple to be distributed to its users. -- Jecel _______________________________________________ etoys-dev mailing list etoys-dev(a)squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev

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Re: [etoys-dev] FW: CS4K8 Etoys Workshop
by Bert Freudenberg 23 May '13

23 May '13

On 2013-05-22, at 00:52, "Jecel Assumpcao Jr." <jecel(a)merlintec.com> wrote: > Kathleen, > >> It is beginning to seem more urgent that Etoys adapt to these new rather >> closed box machines. > > Etoys has been adapted, but isn't allowed by Apple to be distributed to > its users. That's not exactly true: we did not even try to submit the iPad version to Apple. One reason is indeed that Apple might object to the built-in project sharing, but the more severe reason is that the current Etoys UI does not work well on a touch-only device. Nobody has seriously tried to do anything about that, yet. (It is true that Apple rejected the "Scratch Viewer", see http://mobilewikiserver.com/Scratch.html ) - Bert -

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FW: CS4K8 Etoys Workshop
by Harness, Kathleen 21 May '13

21 May '13

Hi, I thought you might be interested in the "Side Note" below. Matt is one of the Unit 4 Champaign Schools Instructional Technology Coaches. There is already very simple App that looks like Scratch called Hopscotch for the iPad. So, how are they getting Scratch on Chromebooks and iPads? It is beginning to seem more urgent that Etoys adapt to these new rather closed box machines. What to do? Did Crowdsourcing bring in any money for the trip to Uruguay? Maybe we could look at that method of fundraising as a way to pay developers, I know this is not trivial work to do. Kathleen ________________________________ From: Matt Sly [slyma(a)champaignschools.org] Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 2:23 PM To: Harness, Kathleen Subject: RE: CS4K8 Etoys Workshop Whatever you need, I can do. Just give me a few hours heads up (preferably 24) and I will make it work. We can certainly talk tech future in Unit 4. Side note – I was just reading an article about SCRATCH (I know, some eToys bad mojo). However, I saw they were developing a web browser based version. This is of particular interest to me as we want to deploy Chromebooks across the district and eToys is a road block to this as it needs to be a standalone program. Have you heard any eToy grumblings about moving to a browser version. It would be a huge deal! However you want to use me for the week long conference, just let me know. Thanks, -Sly From: Harness, Kathleen [mailto:kharness@illinois.edu] Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 12:53 PM To: Matt Sly Subject: RE: CS4K8 Etoys Workshop Matt, "Let me know if there is anything else I can do for you." Well, something to think about . . .can we capitalize on the wealth of knowledge and experience that you and the other ITC's bring to the workshop? Perhaps, a panel or a half hour presentation/discussion of current trends, district plans and committees. Lenny is setting the agenda and schedule but when there is a draft of that I will suggest this possibility in a note to you, Ariella, Heidi, Elizabeth Slifer, Minsoo Park and Jessica Pitcher. This year's classroom experiences of Jessica, Minsoo and Elizabeth are valuable to the teachers just starting. Regards, Kathleen ________________________________ From: Matt Sly [slyma(a)champaignschools.org] Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 9:44 AM To: Harness, Kathleen Subject: RE: CS4K8 Etoys Workshop I can bring my own laptop. I am working with Centennial, Robeson & Carrie Busey for 2013-2014. Let me know if there is anything else I can do for you. Thanks, -Sly From: Harness, Kathleen [mailto:kharness@illinois.edu]<mailto:[mailto:kharness@illinois.edu]> Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 7:09 AM To: Matt Sly Subject: CS4K8 Etoys Workshop Good Morning Matt, Will you bring your own laptop to the July 8-12 workshop? We can loan you a net book but they are very small. Which schools will you work with next year? Kathleen

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Re: [etoys-dev] Trouble with Etoys
by Harness, Kathleen 14 May '13

14 May '13

Nancy, The only undo is the one inside the paint tools. Sorry I don't know if that is in the Preferences menus. Kathleen ________________________________ From: Nancy Ledbetter [nancy.ledbetter(a)nhcs.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 1:05 PM To: Michael McKelvey Cc: karl ramberg; Harness, Kathleen; etoys-dev(a)squeakland.org; etoys-education-team(a)googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [etoys-dev] Trouble with Etoys I have another question. There used to be an undo arrow on the Sugar Navigator Flap and it isn't there any long. If the students make a mistake is there an undo? Can we get the undo arrow back somehow? Thanks! Nancy Nancy Ledbetter Computer Resource Teacher Gregory School of Science, Mathematics and Technology On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 5:20 PM, Michael McKelvey <mmckelve(a)mste.illinois.edu<mailto:mmckelve@mste.illinois.edu>> wrote: Thank you for the fast response, Karl. One of the teacher’s 5th graders actually figured it out and they got it working! :) --Michael-- ============== Michael McKelvey ============== Office for Mathematics, Science, and Technology Education University of Illinois, Champaign-Urbana MSTE website: http://mste.illinois.edu<http://mste.illinois.edu/> {Office #: 217-244-7148<tel:217-244-7148>} {Cell #: 217-621-5783<tel:217-621-5783>} =========== mmckelve(a)mste.illinois.edu<mailto:mmckelve@mste.illinois.edu> =========== Current diversion: Go On (http://nbc.com/go-on/) From: karl ramberg [mailto:karlramberg@gmail.com<mailto:karlramberg@gmail.com>] Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 2:11 PM To: Harness, Kathleen Cc: nancy.ledbetter(a)nhcs.net<mailto:nancy.ledbetter@nhcs.net>; Michael McKelvey; etoys-dev(a)squeakland.org<mailto:etoys-dev@squeakland.org>; etoys-education-team(a)googlegroups.com<mailto:etoys-education-team@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: [etoys-dev] Trouble with Etoys Hi It sound like a setting is changed in your Etoys. Right click on the background/desktop in Etoys, the halo for the background/desktop appears. Click on the menu handle for the background/desktop. Select the 'playfield options' See if 'auto-phrase-expansion' is checked, it should be. The projects you can't load, are they available for download somewhere, so I can check them for issues ? Karl On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 8:04 PM, Harness, Kathleen <kharness(a)illinois.edu<mailto:kharness@illinois.edu>> wrote: Nancy, Hmm, I not sure what is happening so I am sending your note to the Etoys developer's team. They will be able to help. It must be unsettling for you and your students to have the software to act the way you describe. Let me speak for the EtoysIllinois team and tell you we are glad to hear you like the site and the resources!Would you be interested in attending one of our meetings with Google +? We meet year round, every other Thursday at 1PM, the next meeting will be May 23rd. There also are weekly meetings of the Squeakland Education Team on Thursdays a little earlier in the day. Both groups enjoy meeting others using Etoys with students. Let me know. Regards, Kathleen ________________________________________ From: Michael McKelvey [mmckelve(a)mste.illinois.edu<mailto:mmckelve@mste.illinois.edu>] Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 12:11 PM To: Harness, Kathleen Subject: FW: Trouble with Etoys Hi Kathleen, Does this sound like something you can help with, Kathleen? It sounds like she has the latest version of Etoys. --Michael-- ============== Michael McKelvey ============== Office for Mathematics, Science, and Technology Education University of Illinois, Champaign-Urbana MSTE website: http://mste.illinois.edu {Office #: 217-244-7148<tel:217-244-7148>} {Cell #: 217-621-5783<tel:217-621-5783>} =========== mmckelve(a)mste.illinois.edu<mailto:mmckelve@mste.illinois.edu> =========== Current diversion: Go On (http://nbc.com/go-on/) > -----Original Message----- > From: Nancy Ledbetter [mailto:nancy.ledbetter@nhcs.net<mailto:nancy.ledbetter@nhcs.net>] > Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 9:23 AM > To: Michael McKelvey > Subject: Trouble with Etoys > > > Hi, first, I want to say we love this site and the resources. I'm trying to > develop an Etoys program in our school. I am the Computer Resource > Teacher/Technology Specialist for one of the elementary schools. > > > > Our technology department recently downloaded Etoys v 5 and I've run into > some trouble. The scripts are becoming tiles, and I can't see the script when I > drag it from the viewer. I just see tiles representing the scripts. And some of > our projects done in a previous Squeak Etoys version aren't being > recognized. > > > > http://etoysillinois.org/download > > > > This is the version we downloaded. Is there a newer one than that or have > you had a similar issue? We are kind of stuck right now. > > > > I think the biggest issue is not being able to bring the scripts back out from > the viewer to work with them after we save. > > > > Thanks > > Nancy _______________________________________________ etoys-dev mailing list etoys-dev(a)squeakland.org<mailto:etoys-dev@squeakland.org> http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev

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Re: [etoys-dev] Trouble with Etoys
by karl ramberg 14 May '13

14 May '13

The issue is covered here. http://tracker.immuexa.com/browse/SQ-378 The undo function in Etoys are not good enough at this point, so it got removed. Karl On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 8:05 PM, Nancy Ledbetter <nancy.ledbetter(a)nhcs.net>wrote: > I have another question. There used to be an undo arrow on the Sugar > Navigator Flap and it isn't there any long. If the students make a mistake > is there an undo? Can we get the undo arrow back somehow? > > Thanks! > Nancy > > Nancy Ledbetter > Computer Resource Teacher > Gregory School of Science, Mathematics and Technology > > > > On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 5:20 PM, Michael McKelvey < > mmckelve(a)mste.illinois.edu> wrote: > >> Thank you for the fast response, Karl. One of the teacher’s 5th graders >> actually figured it out and they got it working! J**** >> >> ** ** >> >> --Michael--**** >> >> ** ** >> >> ============== Michael McKelvey ==============**** >> >> Office for Mathematics, Science, and Technology Education**** >> >> University of Illinois, Champaign-Urbana**** >> >> MSTE website: http://mste.illinois.edu**** >> >> {Office #: 217-244-7148} {Cell #: 217-621-5783}**** >> >> =========== mmckelve(a)mste.illinois.edu ===========**** >> >> Current diversion: Go On (http://nbc.com/go-on/)**** >> >> ** ** >> >> *From:* karl ramberg [mailto:karlramberg@gmail.com] >> *Sent:* Friday, May 10, 2013 2:11 PM >> *To:* Harness, Kathleen >> *Cc:* nancy.ledbetter(a)nhcs.net; Michael McKelvey; >> etoys-dev(a)squeakland.org; etoys-education-team(a)googlegroups.com >> *Subject:* Re: [etoys-dev] Trouble with Etoys**** >> >> ** ** >> >> Hi**** >> >> It sound like a setting is changed in your Etoys.**** >> >> ** ** >> >> Right click on the background/desktop in Etoys, the halo for the >> background/desktop appears.**** >> >> Click on the menu handle for the background/desktop.**** >> >> Select the 'playfield options'**** >> >> See if 'auto-phrase-expansion' is checked, it should be.**** >> >> ** ** >> >> The projects you can't load, are they available for download somewhere, >> so I can check them for issues ?**** >> >> ** ** >> >> Karl**** >> >> ** ** >> >> ** ** >> >> ** ** >> >> ** ** >> >> On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 8:04 PM, Harness, Kathleen <kharness(a)illinois.edu> >> wrote:**** >> >> Nancy, >> Hmm, I not sure what is happening so I am sending your note to the Etoys >> developer's team. They will be able to help. It must be unsettling for you >> and your students to have the software to act the way you describe. >> >> Let me speak for the EtoysIllinois team and tell you we are glad to hear >> you like the site and the resources!Would you be interested in attending >> one of our meetings with Google +? We meet year round, every other Thursday >> at 1PM, the next meeting will be May 23rd. >> >> There also are weekly meetings of the Squeakland Education Team on >> Thursdays a little earlier in the day. Both groups enjoy meeting others >> using Etoys with students. >> Let me know. >> Regards, >> Kathleen >> ________________________________________ >> From: Michael McKelvey [mmckelve(a)mste.illinois.edu] >> Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 12:11 PM >> To: Harness, Kathleen >> Subject: FW: Trouble with Etoys >> >> Hi Kathleen, >> >> Does this sound like something you can help with, Kathleen? It sounds >> like >> she has the latest version of Etoys. >> >> --Michael-- >> >> ============== Michael McKelvey ============== >> Office for Mathematics, Science, and Technology Education >> University of Illinois, Champaign-Urbana >> MSTE website: http://mste.illinois.edu >> {Office #: 217-244-7148} {Cell #: 217-621-5783} >> =========== mmckelve(a)mste.illinois.edu =========== >> Current diversion: Go On (http://nbc.com/go-on/) >> >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Nancy Ledbetter [mailto:nancy.ledbetter@nhcs.net] >> > Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 9:23 AM >> > To: Michael McKelvey >> > Subject: Trouble with Etoys >> > >> > >> > Hi, first, I want to say we love this site and the resources. I'm trying >> to >> > develop an Etoys program in our school. I am the Computer Resource >> > Teacher/Technology Specialist for one of the elementary schools. >> > >> > >> > >> > Our technology department recently downloaded Etoys v 5 and I've run >> into >> > some trouble. The scripts are becoming tiles, and I can't see the script >> when I >> > drag it from the viewer. I just see tiles representing the scripts. And >> some of >> > our projects done in a previous Squeak Etoys version aren't being >> > recognized. >> > >> > >> > >> > http://etoysillinois.org/download >> > >> > >> > >> > This is the version we downloaded. Is there a newer one than that or >> have >> > you had a similar issue? We are kind of stuck right now. >> > >> > >> > >> > I think the biggest issue is not being able to bring the scripts back >> out >> from >> > the viewer to work with them after we save. >> > >> > >> > >> > Thanks >> > >> > Nancy >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> etoys-dev mailing list >> etoys-dev(a)squeakland.org >> http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev**** >> >> ** ** >> > >

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Etoys: Morphic-kfr.106.mcz
by commits＠source.squeak.org 13 May '13

13 May '13

Karl Ramberg uploaded a new version of Morphic to project Etoys: http://source.squeak.org/etoys/Morphic-kfr.106.mcz ==================== Summary ==================== Name: Morphic-kfr.106 Author: kfr Time: 13 May 2013, 6:19:27 pm UUID: 69482c11-9b78-2b42-a7e7-6f58f3442d54 Ancestors: Morphic-kfr.105 Inserts multiple scaled objects into a holder causes them to scale further http://tracker.squeakland.org/browse/SQ-935 http://tracker.squeakland.org/browse/SQ-628 The detentBy... should only be used when changing that value interactively (using the halo), not when doing it programmatically. Halo scaling does not use extent: directly, it uses scaleToMatch wich sends detentBy... =============== Diff against Morphic-kfr.105 =============== Item was changed: ----- Method: TransformationMorph>>extent: (in category 'geometry') ----- extent: newExtent | scaleFactor | self adjustAfter: [scaleFactor _ (self scale * newExtent r / self fullBounds extent r) max: 0.1. + self scale: scaleFactor]! - self scale: (scaleFactor detentBy: 0.1 atMultiplesOf: 1.0 snap: false)]!

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etoys-dev May 2013