I didn't realize how spoiled we Americans are. Most of us can pretty
much assume we'll have access to high speed connections at home, work,
or in between sitting in a Starbucks or in my vehicle with my laptop
(as long as I'm in Manhattan). Apparently that's not so with our
friends from abroad.
I'm looking forward to using the forum. In fact, I pushed for its
inception. Guess we need to learn to be a bit more sensitive. I applaud
Michael's efforts and hope that a solution to this problem can still be
found.
Phil
On Mar 29, 2004, at 3:00 PM, squeakland-request(a)squeakland.org wrote:
> Send Squeakland mailing list submissions to
> squeakland(a)squeakland.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> squeakland-request(a)squeakland.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> squeakland-owner(a)squeakland.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Squeakland digest..."
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Grand opening: squeakland forum (Michael Rueger)
> 2. Re: Grand opening: squeakland forum (Samuel Tardieu)
> 3. RE: Re: Grand opening: squeakland forum (Mitchell, David [CC])
>
> From: Michael Rueger <michael(a)squeakland.org>
> Date: March 29, 2004 12:28:58 PM EST
> To: squeakland(a)squeakland.org, "Squeak e.V."
> <squeak-ev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org>, squeakland-de(a)squeakland.org
> Subject: [Squeakland] Grand opening: squeakland forum
>
>
>
> Hello Squeaklanders,
>
> please all take a look at the new squeakland forum site at
>
> http://forums.squeakland.org/
>
> The plan is to move the squeakland discussions over to this
> communication form in the future.
>
> We will also add foreign language forums as needed.
>
> This is new ground for us and we will try our best to improve the
> experience as we go along.
>
> Feedback, comments, encouragements welcome :-)
>
> Cheers
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Samuel Tardieu <sam(a)rfc1149.net>
> Date: March 29, 2004 1:34:02 PM EST
> To: squeakland(a)squeakland.org
> Subject: [Squeakland] Re: Grand opening: squeakland forum
>
>
>>>>>> "Michael" == Michael Rueger
>>>>>> <michael(a)squeakland.org> writes:
>
> Michael> Feedback, comments, encouragements welcome :-)
>
> Yuk. I don't like WWW forums. I can't read them or contribute while
> offline. I have to have a graphical www browser to read them of
> participate. I hate them in fact :)
>
> Sam
> --
> Samuel Tardieu -- sam(a)rfc1149.net -- http://www.rfc1149.net/sam
>
>
>
>
> From: "Mitchell, David [CC]" <David.Mitchell(a)mail.sprint.com>
> Date: March 29, 2004 2:16:56 PM EST
> To: <squeakland(a)squeakland.org>
> Subject: RE: [Squeakland] Re: Grand opening: squeakland forum
>
>
> SSBwcmVmZXIgYSBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QgdG8gYSB3ZWIgZm9ydW0uCgpCdXQsIHNvbWUgcGV
> vcGxl
> IGxpa2UgdGhlbS4gTWF5YmUgd2UgY2FuIGhhdmUgYm90aD8KCkkgd291bGQgbGlrZSBpdCB
> pZiB0
> aGUgbGlzdCB3ZXJlIG1pcnJvcmVkIHRvIHRoZSBmb3J1bSBhbmQgdmljZS12ZXJzYS4gCgp
> CdXQs
> IEknbSBoYXBweSB0byB1c2Ugd2hhdGV2ZXIgcmVzb3VyY2VzIG90aGVycyBjb250cmlidXR
> lLiA6
> LSkKCi0tRGF2aWQgTWl0Y2hlbGwKCgotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQpGcm9
> tOglz
> cXVlYWtsYW5kLWJvdW5jZXNAc3F1ZWFrbGFuZC5vcmcgb24gYmVoYWxmIG9mIFNhbXVlbCB
> UYXJk
> aWV1ClNlbnQ6CU1vbiAzLzI5LzIwMDQgMTI6MzQgUE0KVG86CXNxdWVha2xhbmRAc3F1ZWF
> rbGFu
> ZC5vcmcKQ2M6CQpTdWJqZWN0OglbU3F1ZWFrbGFuZF0gUmU6IEdyYW5kIG9wZW5pbmc6IHN
> xdWVh
> a2xhbmQgZm9ydW0KPj4+Pj4gIk1pY2hhZWwiID09IE1pY2hhZWwgUnVlZ2VyCj4+Pj4+IDx
> taWNo
> YWVsQHNxdWVha2xhbmQub3JnPiB3cml0ZXM6CgpNaWNoYWVsPiBGZWVkYmFjaywgY29tbWV
> udHMs
> IGVuY291cmFnZW1lbnRzIHdlbGNvbWUgOi0pCgpZdWsuIEkgZG9uJ3QgbGlrZSBXV1cgZm9
> ydW1z
> LiBJIGNhbid0IHJlYWQgdGhlbSBvciBjb250cmlidXRlIHdoaWxlCm9mZmxpbmUuIEkgaGF
> 2ZSB0
> byBoYXZlIGEgZ3JhcGhpY2FsIHd3dyBicm93c2VyIHRvIHJlYWQgdGhlbSBvZgpwYXJ0aWN
> pcGF0
> ZS4gSSBoYXRlIHRoZW0gaW4gZmFjdCA6KQoKICBTYW0KLS0gClNhbXVlbCBUYXJkaWV1IC0
> tIHNh
> bUByZmMxMTQ5Lm5ldCAtLSBodHRwOi8vd3d3LnJmYzExNDkubmV0L3NhbQoKX19fX19fX19
> fX19f
> X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KU3F1ZWFrbGFuZCBtYWlsaW5
> nIGxp
> c3QKU3F1ZWFrbGFuZEBzcXVlYWtsYW5kLm9yZwpodHRwOi8vc3F1ZWFrbGFuZC5vcmcvbWF
> pbG1h
> bi9saXN0aW5mby9zcXVlYWtsYW5kCgoKCgotLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLSBuZXh0IHBhcnQgLS0
> tLS0t
> LS0tLS0tLS0KQW4gSFRNTCBhdHRhY2htZW50IHdhcyBzY3J1YmJlZC4uLgpVUkw6IGh0dHA
> 6Ly9z
> cXVlYWtsYW5kLm9yZy9waXBlcm1haWwvc3F1ZWFrbGFuZC9hdHRhY2htZW50cy8yMDA0MDM
> yOS9l
> OGY0NTc5Ni9hdHRhY2htZW50LTAwMDEuaHRtCg==
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Squeakland mailing list
> Squeakland(a)squeakland.org
> http://squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
Blog away, please, Darius. I've read about the conference and I'm familiar
with Henry Jenkins' work. Thanks in advance for the effort. Sheine
> -----Original Message-----
> From: squeakland-bounces(a)squeakland.org
> [SMTP:squeakland-bounces@squeakland.org] On Behalf Of Darius Clarke
> Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 8:17 PM
> To: squeakland(a)squeakland.org
> Subject: [Squeakland] I'll be at "The Education Arcade 2004
> Conference" @ E3 May 9-11
>
> I'll be at "The Education Arcade 2004 Conference"
> at the Electronic Entertainment Exposition (E3) during May 10-11
> http://www.educationarcade.org/
> (click on: 2004 Conference ? Description in Main Menu sidebar)
> ___
>
> If you are attending and care to meet up during the conference let me
> know. We
> can compare our "elevator pitch" for Squeak/Croquet.
>
> If you are interested and cannot attend, but have some questions you?d
> like me
> to ask the other attendees or speakers, let me know.
> ___
>
> Topics and panels will include:
> Are Games Educational?
> From Simulation to Interaction
> Fostering Games Literacy
> Building Partnerships Among Universities, Industry, and Public
> Institutions
> Making Tools for Making Games
> Commercial and Educational Successes
> New Collaborators: Making the Next Move
> Roundtables on Educational, Technical, Creative, and Market Trends
>
> 2004 Conference Schedule:
> http://www.educationarcade.org/modules.php?
> op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=13&page=1
> ___
>
> Presenters include: Henry Jenkins III, MIT Comparative Media Studies;
> James Paul
> Gee, University of Wisconsin-Madison; Brenda Laurel, Game Designer; Will
> Wright,
> Creator of The Sims; W. James Au, Salon; Amy Bruckman, Georgia Institute
> of
> Technology; Ben Sawyer, Serious Games Initiative; Scott Fisher, University
> of
> Southern California; Andrew Court; Bonnie Bracey, LucasArts Foundation;
> Roy Pea,
> Stanford Media X; Celia Pearce, University of California-Irvine; Johnny
> Wilson,
> Author of High Score!; Chris Weaver, Media Technology Ltd; Tom Piper,
> Royal
> Shakespeare Company; Tom Kalinske & Alex Chisholm, Leapfrog Enterprises;
> Steven
> Drucker, Microsoft Research; Ken Perlin, New York University; Philip Tan,
> MIT
> Comparative Media Studies; Eric Klopfer, MIT Teacher Education Program;
> David
> Buckingham, University of London; Jessica Irish, Wellesley College,
> Boston;
> Gerard Jones, Author of Killing Monsters; Eric Zimmerman, GameLab; James
> Oppenheim, The Oppenheim Toy Portfolio; Robin Raskin, The Internet Mom;
> Doug
> Lowenstein, Entertainment Software Association
> ___
>
> Would you be interested if I blogged the conference?
>
> Cheers,
> Darius Clarke
>
> _______________________________________________
> Squeakland mailing list
> Squeakland(a)squeakland.org
> http://squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
I'll be at "The Education Arcade 2004 Conference"
at the Electronic Entertainment Exposition (E3) during May 10-11
http://www.educationarcade.org/
(click on: 2004 Conference ? Description in Main Menu sidebar)
___
If you are attending and care to meet up during the conference let me know. We
can compare our "elevator pitch" for Squeak/Croquet.
If you are interested and cannot attend, but have some questions you?d like me
to ask the other attendees or speakers, let me know.
___
Topics and panels will include:
Are Games Educational?
From Simulation to Interaction
Fostering Games Literacy
Building Partnerships Among Universities, Industry, and Public Institutions
Making Tools for Making Games
Commercial and Educational Successes
New Collaborators: Making the Next Move
Roundtables on Educational, Technical, Creative, and Market Trends
2004 Conference Schedule:
http://www.educationarcade.org/modules.php?
op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=13&page=1
___
Presenters include: Henry Jenkins III, MIT Comparative Media Studies; James Paul
Gee, University of Wisconsin-Madison; Brenda Laurel, Game Designer; Will Wright,
Creator of The Sims; W. James Au, Salon; Amy Bruckman, Georgia Institute of
Technology; Ben Sawyer, Serious Games Initiative; Scott Fisher, University of
Southern California; Andrew Court; Bonnie Bracey, LucasArts Foundation; Roy Pea,
Stanford Media X; Celia Pearce, University of California-Irvine; Johnny Wilson,
Author of High Score!; Chris Weaver, Media Technology Ltd; Tom Piper, Royal
Shakespeare Company; Tom Kalinske & Alex Chisholm, Leapfrog Enterprises; Steven
Drucker, Microsoft Research; Ken Perlin, New York University; Philip Tan, MIT
Comparative Media Studies; Eric Klopfer, MIT Teacher Education Program; David
Buckingham, University of London; Jessica Irish, Wellesley College, Boston;
Gerard Jones, Author of Killing Monsters; Eric Zimmerman, GameLab; James
Oppenheim, The Oppenheim Toy Portfolio; Robin Raskin, The Internet Mom; Doug
Lowenstein, Entertainment Software Association
___
Would you be interested if I blogged the conference?
Cheers,
Darius Clarke
Hi folks,
(a bit daring to send it to so many people/lists, but I guess that one
reason why not so much technical related etoys stuff is sent, is
because people are too shy to send their comments to more than one
list, so I hope this is ok...;-))
After some experiments I found the trick to do a Tic Tac Toe-game
entirely with Etoys.
At least a version with human only players, but I nevertheless want it
to share with you:
http://www.squeakland.org/project.jsp?http://www.squeakalpha.org:8080/
super/uploads/TicTacToe.002.pr
It is altogether 43 lines of code, including the script-headers.
The idea is to draw some morphs (polygons) which represent the winning
lines. When a stone is set, the polygons are asked if they overlap it.
If yes, they add the value of this stone to their internal counter, if
this counter is not 0 and divisible by 3 we have a winning situation.
The cross is worth +1 and the circle worth -1.
Also the number of already set stones is counted so that a draw can be
detected.
Enhancing this to 4x4 is quite easy, at least if 4 in a row shall win
then.
But if someone has any idea for Gomoku without ending up by having to
draw a zillion of lines, I'd be interested.
One idea in that direction would be to give players some kind of
"radar", where they could look in some specific direction so that they
can see all their neighbors (of some kind?)
in a distance of 1 to n cells, assumed they live in a matrix of cells.
As directions there would be only vertical, horizontal and diagonal.
Simulations like the game of life and general cellular automatons
should become very easy to do with this approach, so anybody up to give
our deaf, dumb and blind players some fast sensors? I did a first
prototype for that, which is darn slow, but I'd be happy to share that
code for making it fast.
Or are there other tricks/views concerning this problem on the way?
Have fun,
Markus Gaelli
For a funny tic tac toe with an analogue computer opponent see:
http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~cfs/472_html/Intro/TinkertoyComputer/
TinkerToy.html
Dear Squeaklanders,
starting today we offer a new way to participate in the squeakland
community:
http://forums.squeakland.org
The mailing list and the forum are connected, so mails will
automatically appear in the squeakland forum and vice versa.
We also set up support, faq, German and French forums. So even if you
prefer the mailing list, take a look now and then. :-)
Cheers
Michael
I need an OQL interpretor in Squeak. Whoever knows
something about it, please tell me!
Any ideas are greatly appreciated!
Sincerely,
Lulu
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
惠普TT游戏剧,玩游戏,中大奖!
http://cn.rd.yahoo.com/mail_cn/tag/SIG=1402c0to2/**http%3A%2F%2Fhp.allyes.c…
I thought you might find the information below of interest. Sheine
> >>March 31, 2004 - Toronto
> >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
> >
> >Open Source "Opens Up" to the World
> >With Live Streaming of Toronto Conference
> >
> >ARCHIVES AVAILABLE AFTER THE EVENT
> >
> >Persons can participate in Toronto's Open Source conference, scheduled
> for
> >May, without actually being there.
> >
> >Titled "Open Source and Free Software: Concepts, Controversies and
> >Solutions," the meeting is being hosted by UNIVERSITY OF TORONTO. It is
> >scheduled for Sunday, May 9, to Tuesday, May 11, at Convocation Hall, 31
> >King's College Circle. Open source refers to the practice of making
> public
> >the code that makes software work.
> >
> >"As far as we know, this is the first open source conference ever to be
> >webcast, making it the most open 'Open Source' event ever held," says
> >conference chair Ron Baecker.
> >
> >Live streaming will be delivered by the university's innovative
> "ePresence"
> >system. Viewers will:
> >
> >* See a high-resolution image of speakers' slides and other audiovisual
> >aids
> >* Watch and hear the presenters themselves and the audience
> >* Chat online, send each other private messages, and ask questions to
> >presenters
> >* Review previous slides without interrupting the flow
> >* Browse other sites at the speaker's suggestion.
> >
> >After the event, Webcast registrants can:
> >
> >* View an archive of each presentation
> >* Find topics using a two-level table of contents
> >* Find topics using a local search engine
> >* Participate in threaded discussions about the presentation.
> >
> >Details on ePresence may be found at Web site
> >http://epresence.kmdi.toronto.edu. This technology will soon be released
> to
> >the public as open source software.
> >
> >Persons may register for the Webcast at the conference Web site,
> >http://osconf.kmdi.utoronto.ca, for CDN$145. The full conference costs
> >CDN$495 until April 30 and CDN$595 thereafter. Tickets will be available
> at
> >the door. Single-day and discounted volume registrations are also
> >available.
> >
> >The event is unusual in addressing social, moral, legal, political and
> >business, as well as technical, issues. The conference is the first and
> >only of its kind in Canada and the most comprehensive ever held anywhere.
> >
> > - 30 -
> >
> >Please contact:
> >
> >Ron Baecker, Conference Chair
> >(416) 978-6983, rmb(a)kmdi.utoronto.ca
> >
> >Kelly Rankin, Conference Coordinator
> >(416) 946-8512, kelly(a)kmdi.utoronto.ca
> >
> >=======================================================
> >
> >SUPPLEMENTARY INFORMATION
> >
> >The webcast can be received on personal computers running the Linux,
> >Windows 98/2000/2003/XP, and Mac 9.x or OS/X operating systems, and the
> >Internet Explorer, Netscape Navigator, Mozilla, Opera and Safari 1.2
> >browsers, and using either Real Media or Windows Media streaming.
> >
> >The conference is presented by the following organizations within the
> >UNIVERSITY OF TORONTO: Knowledge Media Design Institute, Connaught
> >International Symposia Fund, Centre for Innovation Law and Policy,
> Citizen
> >Lab of the Munk Centre for International Studies, Department of Computer
> >Science, Information Policy Research Program, the University of Toronto
> >Libraries and their Resource Centre for Academic Technology.
> >
> >The support of these organizations is hereby acknowledged: Communications
>
> >and Information Technology Ontario, IBM Centre for Advanced Studies,
> Linux
> >Professional Institute, Seneca College, Ontario Ministry of Economic
> >Development and Trade, The City of Toronto, Caseware International,
> Novell,
> >Openflows Networks Ltd. and The Commons Group.
> >
> >
> > - 30 -
> >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Add photos to your e-mail with MSN Premium. Get 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=h
> ttp://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines
Interesting thoughts. I have been considering attending Squeakfest in
Chicago at the end of August 2004. A couple of teachers at my local school
board attended last year. Some of you may have had the opportunity to learn
with Sholom and Sebastian.
I don't have any sense of what you (hosts) are putting together to present
for the event. Are you focusing on Squeak, etoys, etc technically speaking?
Or are these kinds of matters going to be considered? For example, I'd be
curious to discuss them with Alan, Seymour Papert and Jerome Bruner. Maybe
some others would be interested in volunteering their attendance. Like an
inter-generational thing. Whatever.....
I don't think it's so easy to make a common leap into the virtual--and its
potential--without sharing some things in the "real". Relatedly, I am on my
way to purchasing a web cam. Do any of you have one? Seymour suggested it
when he was here in Toronto with Alan last winter, as a response to my
comment that sitting at a computer for a long time is a lonely exercise
often for someone like me. We could have webfests....
Just think, Alan, back to something you said recently, one day it will be
possible for a person to curl up with a good electronic multi-media
interactive library on a rainy (snowy) day. That sounds wonderful!!!
I would be interested in your response to my thinking/comments on Squeakfest
and webcasting among us.
Sheine
P. S. Kim, we have distance issues in Canada as well so individual
learning--with built-in support and encouragemen--is very attractive.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: squeakland-bounces(a)squeakland.org
> [SMTP:squeakland-bounces@squeakland.org] On Behalf Of Kim Rose
> Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 12:54 PM
> To: Gary Fisher; squeakland(a)squeakland.org
> Subject: Re: [Squeakland] Computer as Tutor
>
> Hi, folks -
>
> I'd like to throw this out, too -- what about kids that don't have
> access to a teacher with knowledge in the requisite area? I am
> thinking about children in rural areas, for example, those whom we
> know in Japan that might only be able to see a human teacher face to
> face a couple of times a month. If we can augment that
> person-to-person experience with a computer-to-person experience I
> think that would be of extreme benefit.
>
> Our research team has been thinking about how we can build
> "tutor-type" aspects into the Etoy system (perhaps a helpful
> character to give a newcomer a "tour" of the system), etc. While
> these ideas are still primarily in a design stage (as the only "help"
> etoys have now are balloons which we find are not widely read) I am a
> deep believer in how online/insystem tutoring "tools' can be of great
> value.
>
> We shouldn't forget that the Squeakland community is involved in a
> variety of learning envirornments, not only "traditional classrooms"
> with 1 teacher to many students.
>
> I have had many experiences where the computer has played the role of
> a great "amplifier" to my learning. Perhaps I've started an
> investigtion/learning process with a "teacher" or group of colleagues
> (think book club) and then, on my own, have turned to "computer" for
> more...really I am turning to is using "computer" to find "community"
> or others interested in learning what I want to learn more about.
> "Computer" enables that wonderfully.
>
> The smarter we make the tools, the more they can help us delve more
> deeply into ideas and thought.
> -- Kim
>
>
>
> At 4:38 PM -0400 4/10/04, Gary Fisher wrote:
> >Greetings, Alan!
> >
> >I happily concede that certainly at the most fundamental "flash card"
> level
> >a computer tutor would be fairly trivial to set up yet potentially quite
> >effective. With etoys it could even quite easily be made fun. The same
> is
> >true of your "musical basics" example, and could be (and likely has been)
> >extended to everything from bird identification to basic anatomy. On
> these
> >matters we're on the same wavelength (of course, I'm riding in the wake
> of a
> >wave you and others created).
> >
> >Further, you're exactly right that a good book beats a bad educator, once
> >one is able to appreciate the former, though a GOOD educator will greatly
> >enhance the student's understanding of even bad books.
> >
> >Again in agreement, you can't get rid of the dedicated educator, and it
> is
> >that possibility -- the automation of education -- that concerns me most.
> >Technology used to enhance learning and multiply the effect of good
> teachers
> >is the achievable ideal, but the reality has often been focused instead
> on
> >cutting costs, on replacing the pastry chef with a cookie cutter, to use
> a
> >metaphor. That would be tragic.
> >
> >All the best,
> >
> >Gary
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Alan Kay" <Alan.Kay(a)squeakland.org>
> >To: "Gary Fisher" <squeakland(a)zchs.org>; <squeakland(a)squeakland.org>
> >Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 2:19 PM
> >Subject: Re: [Squeakland] Computer as Tutor
> >
> >
> >> Hi Gary --
> >>
> >> Where is the furrowed brow or the cheer for comprehension in a
> >> printed book? I don't think you can get rid of the dedicated educator
> >> (and I don't want to), but I learned a very large part of what I
> >> think about from reading well written and not so well written papers
> >> and books. And, I would also say that a good book beats the average
> >> not-so-good and not-so-dedicated educator hands down if one has
> >> gotten fluent in reading and learning from prose.
> >>
> >> So, I think there is a very important role for much better computer
> >> tutors than we now have. For example, today one could really do such
> >> an intermediary for playing a musical instrument -- especially for
> >> classical music.
> >> An interesting setup would be to see one's human teacher about
> >> once a week and be able to practice all week with one's "practice
> >> helper". The state of the art is high for computers being able to
> >> flexibly listen to music, to follow the human player's changes of
> > > tempo, to note various kinds of phrasing, etc., and would be
> >> especially useful for practicing chamber music where the computer
> >> takes the other parts in a flexible manner.
> >> Of course, this would not at all replace playing the piece with
> >> human players -- computers don't and won't feel music (at least not
> >> in my lifetime) -- but musicians use metronomes quite a bit of the
> >> time when they are practicing, and a flexible computer rendition of
> >> the other parts beats a metronome any time.
> >>
> >> The reason this works for music (especially classical music) is that
> >> many (but not all) of the important goals can be characterized well
> >> enough for the computer to notice what is going on, and also quite a
> >> bit of what it means to be flexible about these goals also can be
> >> characterized. Once you decide to use it for practice and not
> >> performance, you've found a sweet spot where most of the computer
> >> involvement is overwhelmingly positive.
> >>
> >> We can constrast this with programming (which is a bit more like
> >> creative writing). There have been several computer tutors for
> >> teaching programming, and even the best one's I've seen feel
> >> crushingly oppressive (basically like a bad teacher with Skinner box
> >> approach to teaching). In one of the earliest etoy classes with 20
> >> children, in one of their "figure this problem out for yourself"
> >> sessions (creating a road and a car that will drive down the center
> >> of it) we got at least 7 distinct workable solutions to this, 2 of
> >> them extremely elegant.
> >> Now, it's easy in this case to imagine a computer tutor that
> >> could watch to see if the car did indeed stay on the road, but right
> >> now, giving good advice about what the children actually did do
> >> (instead of trying to get them to do a mythical "standard good
> >> solution" (which I hate)) is beyond what anyone knows how to do with
> >> a computer tutor.
> >>
> >> But there is one area in which a really great job can be done, and
> >> this is on some "nugget of goodness" (especially in the beginnings of
> >> learning) in which "everything is known". For example, the "Drive a
> >> Car" project is an excellent way to start learning etoys. There are
> >> about 30+ things that are learned, there are quite a variety of
> >> routes, and there are lots of known snarls that beginners need help
> >> with. Years ago there was a tutor for positional notation subtraction
> >> that really worked extremely well, and this was because the designers
> >> made a net of every possible route the kids could take and every
> >> possible bug they could encounter.
> >> This works on a 15-30 minute project that is deemed important,
> >> but is much too much work and much more difficult in other ways for
> >> even a weeks or months long set of ideas.
> >>
> >> So one of the things that I think would be interesting to do, and
> >> that would help people all over, would be to simply do such a brute
> >> force but nicely flexible job on "the first experience with etoys".
> >> Most people finding this stuff on the net don't have your "dedicated
> >> educator"s to ask for help, so a computer tutor that was "pretty darn
> >> good" just to get people well started would be a tremendous aid all
> >> over the world.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> Alan
> >>
> >> At 11:40 AM -0400 4/10/04, Gary Fisher wrote:
> >> >Alan & all;
> >> >
> >> >A draft of the paper cited can be found at
> >>
> >>http://www.lists.pdx.edu/waoe-views/current/att-0016/Blowing_learning_to
> _bi
> >ts.doc.
> >> >
> >> >"The computer as tutor" was a hot topic when I was in college during
> the
> >> >late '60s and early 1970s, and I was peripherally involved in the
> >> >development of several experimental "learning laboratories" at the
> time.
> >> >Sadly, "the powers that be" on these projects universally adopted the
> >> >hopeless "programmed learning" concept which replaces pedagogy with a
> >dreary
> >> >form of mechanized pedantry.
> >> >
> >> >Though it could be done much better now (and could have been done
> much
> >> >better then as well) I lack the imagination to see how genuine
> >understanding
> >> >can be imparted to a child by a tutor unable to discern the furrowed
> >brow,
> >> >or to cheer the sudden gleam of comprehension. I'm sure computers
> have a
> > > >proper place in education, but not absent a dedicated educator.
> >> >
> >> >Gary Fisher
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >----- Original Message -----
> >> >From: "Alan Kay" <Alan.Kay(a)squeakland.org>
> >> >To: "Doug Wolfgram" <doug(a)gfx.com>; <squeakland(a)squeakland.org>
> >> >Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 11:17 AM
> >> >Subject: Re: [Squeakland] Computer as Tutor
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> Hi Doug --
> >> >>
> >> >> Al Bork is very well known in this area going all the way back to
> the
> >> >> 60s. There is a great old book called "The Computer as Tool,
> Tutor,
> >> >> and Tutee" which contains seminal papers by Bork, Papert, and
> others.
> >> >>
> >> >> I couldn't find "Blowing Learning to Bits" on Amazon.
> >> >>
> >> >> One of the original ideas about all this stuff back in the 60s was
> >> >> that some form of AI would develop enough to allow the computer to
> >> >> "understand" enough of a subject to be able to gently correct and
> >> >> steer. This just didn't happen. Some of the near misses (many done
> at
> >> >> CMU) are quite interesting. Plato (at the U of Illinois) was a
> huge
> >> >> system in the 60s and 70s that did a kind of tutorial on many
> >> >> subjects. It's worth studying, but it never got up to what Seymour
> >> >> and I thought would be at all reasonable.
> >> >>
> >> >> There have been some proposals for making a tutorial interface for
> >> >> the Squeak Etoys that use a number of techniques to handle the
> >> >> detecting and gentle correction of errors. I'm hoping to get at
> least
> >> >> one of these started towards the end of the year.
> >> >>
> >> >> It would be great to hear from people on this list just what "the
> >> >> computer as tutor" means to them.
> >> >>
> >> >> Cheers,
> >> >>
> >> >> Alan
> >> >>
> >> >> At 10:56 PM -0700 4/9/04, Doug Wolfgram wrote:
> >> >> >I was recently introduced to Alfred Bork's papers on 'Computer as
> >> >> >Tutor' and am getting very interested in his work. He is
> professor
> >> >> >emeritus at UCI (U of Cal Irvine) and is starting a company to
> build
> >> >> >large scale educational systems spanning preschool through adult
> >> >> >education. I don't want to misstate his goals here, but if
> anyone
> >> >> >else has heard of his book, 'Blowing Learning to Bits', I'd love
> to
> >> >> >hear about it.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >I believe that Squeak is the perfect environment for having the
> >> >> >'Computer as Tutor'. Are there ay specific papers on this
> subject,
> >> >> >even if by another name? Are any of you working on projects where
> >> >> >you could stand back and say "yes, we designed this because we
> saw
> >> >> >the computer as the tutor?" I don't believe that Dr. Bork wants
> to
> >> >> >replace teachers in any way, he is just focused on that
> 'additional'
> >> >> >teacher in our lives, technology.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Cheers!
> >> >> >
> >> >> >D
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >_________________________________________
> >> >> >
> >> >> >"If you're not in e-business ... you're not in business.."
> >> >> >_________________________________________
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Doug Wolfgram
> >> >> >GRAFX Group, Inc.
> >> >> >Cell: 949.433.3641
> >> >> >http://www.gfx.com
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >_______________________________________________
> >> >> >Squeakland mailing list
> >> >> >Squeakland(a)squeakland.org
> >> >> >http://squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Squeakland mailing list
> >> >> Squeakland(a)squeakland.org
> >> >> http://squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
> >> >
> >> >_______________________________________________
> >> >Squeakland mailing list
> >> >Squeakland(a)squeakland.org
> >> >http://squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Squeakland mailing list
> >Squeakland(a)squeakland.org
> >http://squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
>
> _______________________________________________
> Squeakland mailing list
> Squeakland(a)squeakland.org
> http://squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland