[Seaside] Dev toolbar in IE

Fri Oct 6 20:16:33 UTC 2006

Firefox is more compliant with Web Standards than IE6 in Strict mode. As
I understand, IE7 goes a long way towards treating them better, but as
it stands if you want to develop with Web Standards in mind, your best
bet is Firefox. Once you get things working there, you then apply IE6
fixes for anything that breaks (hence ie6win.css via @import
url("ie6win.css"); in our application).

Same goes for JavaScript. I find it easier to develop/debug JavaScript
in Firefox where tools for that are superior, then test in IE and go
back and fix issues in Firefox until everything works as expected. Opera
is much more in line with Firefox, so usually things just work there.

Cheers,

-Boris

-- 
+1.604.689.0322
DeepCove Labs Ltd.
4th floor 595 Howe Street
Vancouver, Canada V6C 2T5

boris at deepcovelabs.com

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-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Teitelbaum [mailto:Ron at USMedRec.com] 
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 1:08 PM
To: Boris Popov; 'The Squeak Enterprise Aubergines Server - general
discussion.'
Subject: RE: [Seaside] Dev toolbar in IE

Ok I'll give it a try and see.  Thanks for the answer.

The - Less quirks seems odd.  Are you saying that because other browsers
are
strict they are more likely to work in IE, or that IE has quirks that do
not
show up on Firefox?

Ron

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Boris Popov [mailto:boris at deepcovelabs.com]
> Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 4:03 PM
> To: Ron at USMedRec.com; The Squeak Enterprise Aubergines Server -
general
> discussion.
> Subject: RE: [Seaside] Dev toolbar in IE
> 
> Here are few reasons why I personally find Firefox as a best tool for
> development (that's not to say some of these tools don't exist for IE
> though),
> 
> - TABS! :)
> - Less quirks in treating Web Standards compliant XHTML (Strict) and
CSS
> - DOM inspector
> - JavaScript console
> - JavaScript debugger
>    - http://www.mozilla.org/projects/venkman/
> - Web Developer toolbar
>    - http://chrispederick.com/work/webdeveloper/
> 
> Our designer tests the visual aspects against the variety of browsers
> before delivering the markup and CSS, I test everything else on
various
> versions of IE, Firefox and Opera, but I never use IE in the normal
> course of development.
> 
> To sum it up, just because there's no reliable way to get the toolbar
to
> stick to the bottom of the screen in IE, don't discount Seaside as
> 'incapable', this one is really IE's fault.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> -Boris
> 
> --
> +1.604.689.0322
> DeepCove Labs Ltd.
> 4th floor 595 Howe Street
> Vancouver, Canada V6C 2T5
> 
> boris at deepcovelabs.com
> 
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
> 
> This email is intended only for the persons named in the message
> header. Unless otherwise indicated, it contains information that is
> private and confidential. If you have received it in error, please
> notify the sender and delete the entire message including any
> attachments.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ron Teitelbaum [mailto:Ron at USMedRec.com]
> Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 12:55 PM
> To: Boris Popov; 'The Squeak Enterprise Aubergines Server - general
> discussion.'
> Subject: RE: [Seaside] Dev toolbar in IE
> 
> Hi Boris!
> 
> I see the browser as the end product for testing.  I'm not even to the
> point
> yet of testing code on other browsers, but I do stay away from any
code
> that
> says it may be an issue and especially anything that may be in issue
for
> IE.
> (I was planning on using AJAX until I saw that IE 6.0 may not support
it
> if
> active x is turned off [which happens frequently]) So my question:
Why
> would it matter which browser is used for development?
> 
> Ron
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Boris Popov [mailto:boris at deepcovelabs.com]
> > Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 3:30 PM
> > To: Ron at USMedRec.com; The Squeak Enterprise Aubergines Server -
> general
> > discussion.
> > Subject: RE: [Seaside] Dev toolbar in IE
> >
> > This is in development only though, and I tend to side with
Philippe,
> no
> > serious web developer is using IE for anything other than testing,
> where
> > the toolbar is disabled anyhow :)
> >
> > -Boris
> >
> > --
> > +1.604.689.0322
> > DeepCove Labs Ltd.
> > 4th floor 595 Howe Street
> > Vancouver, Canada V6C 2T5
> >
> > boris at deepcovelabs.com
> >
> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
> >
> > This email is intended only for the persons named in the message
> > header. Unless otherwise indicated, it contains information that is
> > private and confidential. If you have received it in error, please
> > notify the sender and delete the entire message including any
> > attachments.
> >
> > Thank you.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: seaside-bounces at lists.squeakfoundation.org
> > [mailto:seaside-bounces at lists.squeakfoundation.org] On Behalf Of Ron
> > Teitelbaum
> > Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 12:13 PM
> > To: 'The Squeak Enterprise Aubergines Server - general discussion.'
> > Subject: RE: [Seaside] Dev toolbar in IE
> >
> > I don't get this!  Since IE is still > 50% of the market how can you
> > ignore
> > it?
> >
> > > From: Philippe Marschall
> > >
> > > It never did. But then, which web dev uses IE anyway?
> > >
> > > Philippe
> > >
> > > 2006/10/6, Boris Popov <boris at deepcovelabs.com>:
> > > > Is it just me or the toolbar doesn't stick to the bottom of the
> > screen
> > > > anymore in IE?
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > >
> > > > -Boris
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > +1.604.689.0322
> > > > DeepCove Labs Ltd.
> > > > 4th floor 595 Howe Street
> > > > Vancouver, Canada V6C 2T5
> > > >
> > > > boris at deepcovelabs.com
> > > >
> > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
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> > > > This email is intended only for the persons named in the message
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please
> > > > notify the sender and delete the entire message including any
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> > > >
> > > > Thank you.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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