On Thu, 24 February 2000, Paul Fernhout wrote:

> 
> Stefan Matthias Aust wrote:
> > For business applications, I'd recommend to stay with Dolphin ST.  Its
> > application framework (called MVP - Model View Presenter) is IMHO one of
> > the best things invented for Smalltalk.  Squeak has nothing comparable (yet).
> 
> Sad, but true...
> 
> In general, I'd say the Squeak list is self-selecting. There are many
> people who would want to use Squeak for business apps (or any type of
> apps they can distribute). However, after evaluating Squeak or looking
> at the list, or posting messages like this, they go away. This is sad,
> because many of these people might otherwise be able to contribute to
> Squeak.
> 
> It's especially sad because if even 1/10 the effort that went into
> Morphic was spent making some standard widgets under MVC (drop down
> lists), simplifying install and distribution of an EXE/whatever, and
> making the base distribution a minimalist one (with stuff like Alice or
> VM generation added as desired rather than removed), Squeak would
> probably have a hundred times as many users and have/had a real chance
> of big success against Java, Python, etc.

[snip]

Stefan,

While I love Dolphin Smalltalk and its community, my allegiance is to 
Smalltalk, not in particular Dolphin, although Dolphin provides so many
things for that like-it-or-not crucial Windows environment that I _must_
use it.  However, I am personally committed to advancing Smalltalk, and
with that, Squeak, because clearly Squeak is a very important dialect.

This means, to be concrete about it, that when I put up my planned
applets on my Web site for doing math and combinatorics and SQL
hacks, I'll provide the source and, moreover, I'll provide the source
in Squeak-compatible as well as Dolphin compatible fileins.  And
I'll provide the function as a Squeak applet as well as a Dolphin
applet.

I suspect a lot of us are trying to enlarge the Smalltalk 8-dimensional
hypersphere and while Squeak is an important part of that, it isn't
the Only Way or the Only Priority.  I say "Patience".

Sorry if I seem to lecture.  I'm sure everyone appreciates all the
great stuff you've done for Squeak and I by no means intend to
belittle or imply your contributions to Smalltalk-in-the-large are
anything but fabulous.

Apologies if this got awkwardly personal.

We'll get there, no doubt.  (;-)}

  --Jan

__________________________________________________
  Jan Theodore Galkowski          algebraist.com/ 
  www.whysmalltalk.com/        www.smalltalk.org/                                     
  demiourgos at smalltalk.org       marssociety.org/
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