Swiki.net vs. Comanche ?

Jimmie Houchin jhouchin at texoma.net
Wed Nov 1 04:22:13 UTC 2000


Stephen Pair wrote:
[snip]
> > Permission system: Does this provide delegated access to objects, pages,
> > directories?
> 
> I'm not exactly sure what you mean, but probably yes.  The authentication
> mechanism allows easy definition of "net actions."  Each net action is
> assigned a security level.  It's up to the object (or it's presenter) to
> determine semantic meaning of that security level.  In addition, any object
> can have an authorization set attached to it that defines what account have
> access level for a given object (thus defining the set of net actions a
> given user has access to).

I am coming from a background in Zope. With Zope you have a
sophisticated permission system which allows the owner/creator/manager
of an object the capacity to determine who is able to do what with the
object. The URL is used to traverse the object system. URL's create
hierarchies. Permissions can be established from various points in the
hierarchy for various individuals. The individual can thus be restricted
or empowered from said point.

Example.

www.mysite.com/company_A/      is a directory for Company A
www.mysite.com/company_A/news/
www.mysite.com/company_A/products/
www.mysite.com/company_B/      is a directory for Company B

Manager from company A can be restricted to only modifying or viewing
content below company_A, likewise someone from Company B to company_b.
The news manager for company A can have authority in the news directory
and below but not the products directory or below. Permissions can be
inherited (or acquired via context) and overridden individually or
hierarchically.

Hopefully this helps.


> > Sessions
> > Virtual Hosting
> > Squeak Server Pages
> > Remote Server Management
> > XML Database
> >
> > All of these would be great additions to Squeak and/or Squeak Web
> > Servers. Are any of these already publicly available?
> 
> - Squeak server pages is ... see http://ssp-squeak.swiki.net
> - Sessions I believe is already part of comanche (see
> http://comanche.swiki.net), but we may have added some more capabilities in
> that area

Thanks for the links. I'll look into the SSP. :)

> The other stuff should come over time and Je77 or Bolot may have a variant
> on some of these in their Comanche and Swiki work.
> 
> The next thing I'm working toward is a good transaction service
> implementation.  I've got a Transactional Compiler and the start of a robust
> framework (that will support TIP).  I'm planning on writing a paper for this
> one to illustrate clearly how to use it...I see it as a critical part of any
> application server.

This sounds great. I agree it is critical. I look forward to reading
your paper.

> > I find the database of tremendous interest. It would seem that it
> > would/could be of value to any Squeaker. There are many desktop apps
> > which could benefit from a native XML/object database.
> 
> There are several solutions available already (I just found it more fun to
> build my own)...there's Minnestore, a MySql interface, and probably others.
> I'm trying to get to a scalable solution that will have multiple Squeak
> images able to access multiple OODBs using a coordinating Squeak image, with
> object references among them, and garbage collection.  The ultimate goal
> here is to get a cluster of Squeak app servers working together behind a
> load balancer with each node capable of maintining it's own local in-memory
> object cache.  I have the basics done...GC, mapping, caching, object
> refs...but no multi-image stuff yet, and Swiki.net/NetUnify is not powered
> by it yet.  Again, the transaction stuff is critical here.

I like your vision of the future. I would like to see it as reality.
Unfortunately I am not skilled enough to help. Maybe others can, I don't
know.

Currently I will probably be using PostgreSQL. However, I much prefer to
stay in an object system and preferable within Squeak.

I thought I saw something about image segments. Is there any information
about that anywhere? I've tried to search the egroups archives but
searching for "image" and "segments" isn't easy. :(

I thought (maybe naively so) that if image segments were possible that
they would make for a great basis of an OODB. Reasoning that they are
the native objects system of Squeak. If multiple Squeak image segments
were usable from a master Squeak (and image) then one could partition
apps and data into their own image segment. Just some thoughts. I may be
late to this party. :)

> > I believe Squeak Web Systems need all of the above and will eventual get
> > them. However, it would be tremendous if the community was blessed with
> > a current implementation or project to be able to run with.
> 
> I agree...I've had fun working with Squeak as a server and it's an area in
> which I think it has great potential.

I am just learning Squeak and Smalltalk. Currently the code still looks
foreign to me, but I am intrigued by the IDE and working in a running
system with all of the code available for browsing, modifying, etc.
Coming from a Mac background it feels more comfortable than creating in
a text editor and then compiling or using the interpreter. I also like
what I read about the Squeak/Smalltalk philosophy.

> > Thanks again for sharing this information. I look forward to seeing what
> > becomes available in the near future.
> 
> Me too.  ;)
> 
> - Stephen

Jimmie Houchin





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