At 1:14 PM -0700 8/4/01, Ken Kahn wrote:
>Regarding Squeak, is work going on so that a child with no prior training
>could walk up to an installation and figure how things work?

Hi Ken --

Yes, that is one of our five or so most important projects right now 
(and we really like the way you used ToonTalk to start to do this).

I wouldn't feel too bad about:
>>the remaining problem is that most of these children understand
>>the language primitives and how they combine but have no idea how to design
>>and build a program. They lack the design skills and programming techniques
>to build what they want to build.

Part of the problem is that many young children have difficulty 
planning (and this is normal developmentally). Our experience is that 
they can be brought along if they have fun at each "plateau" of 
learning, and there is plenty for them to do at each plateau.



Cheers,

Alan

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At 1:14 PM -0700 8/4/01, Ken Kahn wrote:
>Roger Kenyon  wrote:
>
>>It doesn't matter how
>>good the software is if the teacher is left out of the loop.
>
>I don't agree, though if possible it is great to keep teachers in the loop.
>There is lots of worthy software out there that has great educational value
>without involving teachers. In the 1980s, as you mentioned, there was
>ChipWits (which I've heard good things about but don't know), Rocky's Boots,
>and Robot Odyssey. More recently there have been plenty of titles that a
>child can master on their own without the help of a teacher or parent. I
>would include Incredible Machine, SimCity, The Sims, Lemmings, Droidworks,
>Logical Journey of the Zoombinis, and Lego Mindstorms as titles that fit in
>Taylor's third category (computer as tutee).
>
>My view of attempts over 30 years to teach computer programming (using Logo,
>Smalltalk, Basic, or whatever) in elementary or middle schools is that they
>rarely succeed because they depend upon teachers having a deep understanding
>of programming. A small fraction of teachers who try are good at teaching
>programming. They often achieve wonderful results.
>
>So I can think of two solutions: (1) teach teachers better and (2) make
>programming tools that can be mastered without adult help. Being a software
>developer I don't know how to change society to accomplish (1) but have some
>ideas about how to achieve (2). ToonTalk has been mastered by many children
>(some as young as 6) with little or no help. While I'm proud of that
>achievement, the remaining problem is that most of these children understand
>the language primitives and how they combine but have no idea how to design
>and build a program. They lack the design skills and programming techniques
>to build what they want to build. But I'm hopeful that more learning tools
>and materials combined with a growing user community will alleviate this
>problem.
>
>Regarding Squeak, is work going on so that a child with no prior training
>could walk up to an installation and figure how things work?
>
>And just to avoid misunderstandings, I'm not claiming it is better to learn
>without the help of a knowledgeable teacher or parent - only that too often
>there isn't an alternative.
>
>Best,
>
>-ken


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