Hi Richard,

On Thu, Aug 09, 2001 at 01:22:42PM +1200, Richard A. O'Keefe wrote:
> "Joshua 'Schwa' Gargus" <schwa at cc.gatech.edu> wrote:
> 	In particularly
> 	poorly-taught classes, I would occasionally get so frustrated with my
> 	professor that I would sit in the front row, conspicuously reading my
> 	textbook rather than wasting my attention on the lecture itself.  On
> 	those occasions, I do not believe that the professor was ever
> 	conscious enough of the classroom situation to notice my small
> 	statement on the quality of their lecture.
> 	
> I've seen similar things.  I've been such a student, and I've been such
> a lecturer (but I'm a _much_ better lecturer now).  Let me tell you, the
> lecturer was certainly aware of you, but too embarrassed/scared to do
> anything about it, or else very pleased to see someone care enough about
> the subject to actually read the textbook.

Just so that I don't seem quite so hostile, I should mention that I
never employed such tactics against lecturers who were merely bad.
For example, I've had lecturers who were recent immigrants, and were
nearly unintelligible.  I would certainly not want to make it any more
difficult for them by openly showing my dissatisfaction with their
class.

I reserved these measures for professors who were bad, and who
clearly knew, and did not care, how bad they were.

> 	
> An important problem is that tertiary-level lecturers are not trained

I'm not sure what you mean by tertiary-level lecturers.  The two
lecturers I have in mind taught mid- and upper-level CS classes, and
were both tenured professors.

Of course, that's not to say that they had any training about how to
educate.  Most CS professors probably don't.

> for the job, and such training as is available is useless or worse.
> I've taken an education paper.  It was strong on theory (at a rather
> vague sort of level) and ideology (there is no such thing as truth, and
> if you Mr Computer Scientist think anything you teach is true you are
> hopelessly naive and probably on a power trip) but rather weak on
> practical things like "how do you set an examination paper so that
> students will understand your questions" and "how do you divide an
> enormous body of knowledge into bite-sized pieces" and "OK, so there
> are dozens of different learning styles BUT you have a class of 160
> students and only 2 contact hours per week so what to you actually DO?"
> Other people I know who've done education papers in a variety of countries
> report similar experiences.
> 
> The plain fact of the matter is that even if they are paying for it,
> tertiary students are responsible for their own education.  If the
> classes are not satisfactory, then do something about it.

I did.  I read and learned the textbook.

> SOME lecturers may be arrogant.  SOME lecturers may be extremely
> defensive.  EVERY lecturer will be defensive if approached in an
> abusive  or hostile way.  But MOST lecturers are keen to improve (if
> you don't credit them with good will, credit them with wanting
> tenure/promotion, so wanting to have a good record).  

Yes, yes, yes, and yes.

The professors I am talking about did not fall under the MOST.  One
was near retirement, and the other was tenured, and spent his time on
his company instead of research/teaching.

I appreciate your point that aggression will be met with
defensiveness, and will be counter-productive in cases where the
lecturer wants to improve.  However, in those cases where the lecturer
does not care, I reserve the right to take pleasure in my petulance,
since I've been denied the opportunity to take pleasure in what I
learn from the professor.

> If any student
> should approach me with a suggestion along the lines of "you have a
> really important subject, but I'm having difficulty with the classes,
> and I think it would help me if xyz", then I'd have a go at xyz.

That is to your credit.  I like to think that I will be the same way
when I teach my first class.

Joshua


> 
> In fact, the lecture I gave this morning was based on just such an
> approach by a student 3 years ago.