Hi!

--- Ned Konz <ned at bike-nomad.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday 23 May 2001 04:22, "Göran" Hultgren wrote:
> 
> > I know you guys have read it though - actually about 278 (unique ips) of
> > you! Hey, that is quite a lot of people since I have only posted it on the
> > list.
> 
> I read it and enjoyed it. Of course, since I haven't seen the product yet, I 
> have to take your word for it...
> 
> Good writing, though. Thanks!

Thanks too!
 
> As for the lack of XP influences in Squeak, I have some ideas: 
[Ideas snipped - good reasons though I agree]
 
> * I'm not clear on what all the advantages of the XML description for UI's 
> are (it looks like an XML version of the Smalltalk code that used to build 
> these things). It would make it easier for a UI builder tool; is this 
> important to people? Do people really want to make the kind of form-centric 
> apps with Squeak that they do with VW? Are these kinds of descriptions useful 
> for other than the classic form-type (button/text entry/etc) constructions 
> (i.e. could you do, say, a ScorePlayerMorph with them)?

Important to people? - It mainly makes it easier to build "cross UI" (Morphic, MVC etc.) tools in
Squeak. But it you go "Morphic only" it might not be so useful unless you like the idea of
building UIs by writing code instead of building UIs out of instances. As the builders are refined
the XML description for a UI may be simpler and shorter than coding it in Squeak by hand.

Form-centric apps? - Well, the UIs that are built using this mechanism in StSq today are not
really forms. But some people would really like to be able to build classical formcentric
info-apps in Squeak too! :-)

Exactly how far the XML<->builder paradigm can be pushed is hard to say - perhaps we can all learn
more by taking a look at Glade (a UI builder in the Gtk/GNOME world using XML for the
descriptions). But the special UIs like the ScorePlayerMorph will IMHO always be simpler to code
by hand. BUT... you might get simpler code (by skipping the XML part) building the UI by calling
the builder instead of doing it all by hand. So the builder may still be useful!

Anyway, I think the main focus in StSq was to describe the Squeak development tools in one place
regardless of MVC/Morphic.

> As you say, it would make it easier to hook up other UI's.

Yup! But of course such a thing would involve lots of other problems.

> * There have been a number of improvements to Squeak since 2.8. Among the 
> biggest of these are the new event model, and improvements in Morphic. Does 
> Stable Squeak intend to include any of these improvements? 

Well, now we are floating into the question of what will happen with StSq when it is "ready". That
is an issue being debated right now, probably mainly at the SqF mailinglist in the short future.
The intention of Stable Squeak is NOT TO FORK. One idea being discussed is to use StSq by
including all the features of it into "regular Squeak" in a coming version - sounds like a good
idea to me.

So in short - my impression is that StSq will not try to catch up with regular Squeak but instead
merge back into regular Squeak somehow. As I said - it is under debate right now how to do this.

> * You don't say what happened to the Network stuff. Will this be a loadable 
> module or is it just not done yet?

Sorry about that - it is a loadable module. Actually Flow has been integrated in StSq - a new
networking subsystem from Craig Latta.

> * What's the story about the Refactoring Browser?

Good question! :-) It is included in StSq but that is all I know. Tthe RB is one great black hole
in my Smalltalk knowledge - I almost do not dare admit that I have never used it! :-) But people
swear by it so it must be good.

> Anyway, I enjoyed the piece. Thanks for writing it!

My pleasure.

regards, Göran

=====
Göran Hultgren, goran.hultgren at bluefish.se
icq#:6136722, GSM: +46 70 3933950, http://www.bluefish.se
"Department of Redundancy department." -- ThinkGeek

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