Re: Three Threads Of SqueakHi, Justin!

I'm copying this to you directly as well as to the list as my emails seem to
be very slow in getting through to squeak-dev much of the time (I doubt this
will appear within twelve hours, though I could be surprised :-)

The "problem" you're seeing is caused not by malicious behavior but by the
way many email programs handle replies in html, which is by indenting the
previous message to distinguish it from the reply.  Each subsequent reply in
the thread will further indent all previous messages, and the indents will
eventually accumulate to the point where the original message is indented
practically off the screen.

If the thread is converted (including in your own email program) to plain
text, all the indenting should be removed and the thread will revert to the
full width used in your email program.

I personally haven't found this thread particularly enlightening, but I
wouldn't want you to think it was being manipulated unfairly.

Gary Fisher

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Justin Walsh
  To: squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org
  Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 6:45 PM
  Subject: Re: Three Threads Of Squeak


  Can somebody please tell me why this thread has been effectively been
garbaged.
  Anybody wishing to read previous contributions will find it pretty well
impossible to read them owing to the fact that they gradually diminish to
one word per line.
  If it is to save space then how?
  Or is it merely to maliciously guide people away from the  "Three Thread
Of Squeak " topic,
  by using, as bait a prominant name.
  I'm sure there is a perfectly good explanation, perhaps the yahooligans
are back in town or maybe I'm just paranoid or technically ignorant.
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Alan Kay
    To: squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org
    Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 1:55 PM
    Subject: Re: Three Threads Of Squeak


    I wasn't talking about Squeak per se, but only about this round of
explorations into children's programming. I think the base of Squeak (and
the children's stuff could be a lot better).


    Cheers,


    Alan


    -------


    At 12:43 AM +0000 11/5/01, Gary McGovern wrote:
      One thing is Justin, Squeak has already been designed. According to an
article that was linked to this list a few of months ago, an article that
covered Squeak Central leaving Disney, it mentioned that 95% of the design
made by Alan had been accomplished.

      Based on that, I don't see how the design of Squeak itself can be an
issue for discussion. Wouldn't those matters be for Squeak Central to figure
out? (Exception: Unless anyone was up to the job of producing their own
offshoot).

      Regards,
      Gary


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Justin Walsh
        To: squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org
        Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2001 1:15 AM
        Subject: Re: Three Threads Of Squeak


        For those people who reply to me directly: I don't really have any
other layout to offer (at this place and time) than the Hierarchy/Network
model that was offered earlier

        Concept      Hierarch  level 1  or Think
        Logical        Hierarch  level 2  or Think/Do
        Physical      Hierarch  level 3  or Do

        and

        Play            peer to peer    This I consider the realm of the
"Autonomous" Object or Virus.

        I have cut from another public email, to myself,  a reply which, I
think, expects me to decide which thread it belongs to.
        I have an opinion but, to avoid controversy, I reproduce it here
again for the readers of this thread to respectfully, analyse, remembering
that the content not the person is relevant.
        The attached pdf demonstrates at least one others point of view.

        Justin,

        In this OS as Squeak Schema you describe, how do you answer this
question?

        If a hen and a half lays an egg and a half in a day and a half, how
many
        waffles does it take to cover a dog house?

        Jim
        Is it technically feasible for say, a list like this one, on
command, to be sorted on the above  4 (?)
        threads?
        Currently on Open Outlook I only have:    From, Subject and Receive.




        ----- Original Message -----

          From: Justin Walsh
          To: squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org
          Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 9:05 PM
          Subject: Re: Three Threads Of Squeak


          Missing attachment

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Justin Walsh
            To: squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org
            Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 8:04 PM
            Subject: Three Threads Of Squeak


            Building professional software is like building a, building:

            Three stages:

            Concept        requires   Designer  ~ ideas
            Logistic         requires   Architect  ~ concepts
            Construct      requires   Builder     ~ objects

            One tool, three threads. Designers don't lay bricks and Brickies
don't design buildings.

            There are those that just like playing so the above order doesnt
matter unless the play is a professional activity. In that case more threads
may be added to the list.

            It is not productive to confuse these different threads. It
leads to insult and counter insult.

            Generally speaking anyone who has ever been a designer will
understand the role of policy, philosopy, religion: in some countries if the
building faces the wrong direction nobody will live or work in it.

            Anybody who has ever been a brickie will understand the role of
initiate, inventiveness, imagination ie most of the tools we find at the
floor level have been created by workers "laying bricks" or to stretch a
metaphor, "writing code".

            Sandwiched in between are the Logicians who use yet another set
of tools to ensure that Designs correspond with Objects (of design).

            We don't have to like, understand, accept, .., each other. Just
respect each other.
            Each has a different vision for Smalltalk that is all.

            Attached is one person view on the matter




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