Hi, Aaron,

> >   Wow, what kind of libraries you have in your mind?  Some
> > particular ones whose source code is not available?
> 
> Nothing without source.  I have no particular library in mind, but having
> the ability to interface with them is a must.  Linking in the entire lib
> is not a very good solution, as I suspect SqueakNOS would require.

  Ok.  I misread that you're saing that modifying VM is part
of "low-level " stuff, but it isn't.  My apology.

> >   Why do you need to replace the low-level work?  Note that
> > you can configure the Squeak image so that once you launch
> > Squeak on WinCE/iPAQ, you cannot escape from it anymore,
> > unless you reset the unit.  It can be done with current
> > (stock) VM.  No one knows the presense of underlying OS in
> > this case.  (Power button still works, but when you turn off
> > and turn on the unit, Squeak is still there.)
> 
> With SqueakNOS, that work hasn't been done on the iPAQ. I am not talking
> about replacing it, but having to do it it in the first
> place.

  I'm saying that WindowCE would do it and it wouldn't be
necessary to "replace" WindowsCE with something else, to
make "a Squeak PDA."

> >   This is very qualitative statement and I know it is not a
> > great idea to correlate the memory size and the type of
> > applications, but from my experience, StrongArm 206Mhz
> > without secondary cache is not fast enough for applications
> > that require 15MB or 20MB of Squeak heap space.  It depends
> > on what you want, but as Kevin (Fisher did), the current
> > image can be strtipped down to around 7MB and you will have
> > pretty much space.  (Yeah, but it depends...)
> 
> It'd still be 10 MB saved.  When you're talking about a device that has 16
> MB of RAM, that is signifigant.

  Can you elaborate it so that I can get the possible
breakdown of the memory usage?

  Yeah, a practical memory usage of 16MB on PocketPC would
be 5MB image file (note that this is going to be compressed
by PocketPC) and 8-9MB of Squeak heap when running and 3MB
for Windows CE.  it might be a little too small.  (If you
have the Compact Flash sleeve, you can have 12MB of Squeak
heap.)

> >   You don't need any Windows machines, if you have an
> > expansion jacket and CF memory card.  (Ok, this costs more
> > money but still cheaper than a "Windows machine".)
> 
> But to develop for the WinCE, I'd need Windows and the PocketPC SDK.  What
> if I want to add a plug-in DLL or recompile the VM with some special
> changes?

  Yes, in that case, you need Windows. (Again, the SDK is
"free".)  But, I'm happy to compile your code on my laptop:-)

  The bottome line is: thank to the Squeak's portability and
compactness, you can do pretty much things with relatively
small amount of memory and not-so-cool OS.  I'd suggest to
see what you can do with stock machines and OS first.  If it
is not good enough, then think about start using some
non-conventional things.

-- Yoshiki

P.S.
  By the way, I sometimes feel that some people use the word
"iPAQ" as if it is a generic name of "highend handheld
device", in a way "Xerox" used to mean "copy machine."
However, the other manufacturer have better products in
these days.  If someone gets Squeak run on those new ones,
please let me know how it works!