Hi Stephen (and fellow Squeakers),

On Mon, Sep 17, 2001 at 05:48:45PM -0400, Stephen Pair wrote:
> I can't believe what I just read...this is truly despicable.  Cees, it
> saddens me that you feel this way.

That he feels what way?  That he calls for compassion towards the
Afghans, who are already among the most impoverished and oppressed
people on the planet, and whose leaders would not be in power if they
hadn't been supported by the CIA in the first place?  Now their
leaders are harboring a suspected terrorist, and although there is as
yet no convincing evidence that he was responsible for Tuesday's sad
events, your leaders and most of your populace are prepared to bomb
them again.  I have heard no words indicating a determination that
this not turn into another Iraq, where US bombs continue to fall while
the people suffer and the leader's position is as strong as ever.

Would you blame an Afghani youth who, after losing his family to
America's quest for vengeance, heads to the mountains and prepares
himself to be yet another suicide bomber?  This is the cycle of
violence that Cees is imploring America to break.

> Let us be thankful that most of us live in a world where power
> structures are not determined through violent means.  For all of its
> faults, capitalism and democratic civilian governments have at least
> given us the opportunity to ponder an even better existence.  I don't
> expect that I will live to see the evolution of civilization beyond it's
> current basis in capitalism, but I do expect to help lay the foundation
> for such a civilization in the future.
> 
> The events of Tuesday remind us all that there are those on this planet
> that seek to turn back the clock to a time when people were ruled
> through voilence and intimidation...and the only language they know is
> violence.
> 
> Cees, if you think that I, as an American, am going to stop for even a
> second and ponder why this act was committed, you are sorely mistaken.
> My only concern in this matter is justice.

You have no concern that other innocent people are not harmed while
bringing bin Laden to "justice"?  Don't you realize that if the USofA
bombs Afghanistan "back into the Stone Age" (as many Republicans are
calling for), then all those who support the strikes are:
	-no better than the terrorists and,
	-fueling the kind of hate that lead to Tuesday's attack 

Some of Cees' rant against the excesses of American consumption (which
I happen to agree with) may have been ill-timed, given the shock and
grief that Americans are suffering.  However, his call for compassion
for the probable victims of the upcoming war is a welcome relief to 
the rhetoric I've been bombarded with by the single-minded American
media machine.

Please try to see Cees' message as the call for a less violent world
that it primarily is.

Joshua

> 
> - Stephen
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: squeak-dev-admin at lists.squeakfoundation.org 
> > [mailto:squeak-dev-admin at lists.squeakfoundation.org] On 
> > Behalf Of Cees de Groot
> > Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 4:36 PM
> > To: squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org
> > Subject: [rant] Re: [OT] Will the SSSCA outlaw Squeak?
> > 
> > 
> > Richard A. O'Keefe <ok at atlas.otago.ac.nz> said:
> > >(2) Last week's *outrage* is bound to create new pressure 
> > from US intelligence
> > >    agencies for more power to intercept electronic communication.
> > >
> > ~Two hours after these awful images aired (I drove home all 
> > the way - 50 miles - with a knot in my stomach) I saw a 
> > Republican guy who was on some defense or intelligence 
> > commision argueing on CNN that this proved the US should 
> > spend more money on the military. His tone was terrible, and 
> > if I weren't already, it would have turned me into an instant 
> > cynic when it comes to US government. That cynic in me is 
> > constantly wispering that cowboy Bush c.s. are just craving 
> > for a good fight, I haven't heard a word of compassion nor 
> > seen even the slightest sign of realization that people may 
> > have actually very good reasons to hate the US and that it's 
> > about time to rethink how the US (and other, err, 'civilized' 
> > countries) behave in the 'uncivilized' parts of this world. 
> > It gives me a very bad feeling that all these people have 
> > died a horrible death for nothing, and their deaths will not 
> > even be written down as the turning point in history towards 
> > a better world it should be. And I do think that the spooks 
> > (the 'military-industrial complex' in some people's 
> > ideologies) will abuse this to take away basic rights like 
> > the right to privacy in communications the US and friendly 
> > states have been (and are) violating on such a massive scale.
> > 
> > Of course, it is more important that oil stays at affordable 
> > prices, otherwise it would get too expensive to drive that 
> > SUV to the local MacDonalds. Liberty and freedom in the US is 
> > not being forced into compact, fuel-economic cars and to hell 
> > with these infidel Afghans who were useful to the free world 
> > as long as there was a Soviet Union to fight against. The 
> > founders of the USofA, who I think possessed intelligence, 
> > insight, sophistication, and - most important - worthy 
> > ideals, are spinning in their graves at supersonic speeds. 
> > I'm not religious, but last week I've been praying their 
> > spinning will be heard.
> > 
> > -- 
> > Cees de Groot               http://www.cdegroot.com     
> > <cg at cdegroot.com>
> > GnuPG 1024D/E0989E8B 0016 F679 F38D 5946 4ECD  1986 F303 937F 
> > E098 9E8B http://www.anti-dmca.org/
> > 
> > 
> 
>