Andrew, thank you for these clarifying remarks.  I would only add, since it seems that we are discussing this here, that there is another useful perspective to infer from these reasons of terrorism, since it was not an irrational act.  This conflict has been happening for at least 23 years, since the Iran Hostage affair.  More likely, it is centuries in the coming, and in recent history exacerbated by the British redivision of political boundaries in the Middle East, followed by inaction to settle the Israel-Palestine issue.  A festoring sore that is.

At it's core, this is about two civilizations clashing for dominance in the world.  One is a progressive, free, liberal society, supporting modern concepts such as equal opportunity for women and low barriers to social mobility.  The other is an anachronistic, conservative culture, that is "in mortal fear" that our culture undermines their basis for existence.  How can they effectively maintain a cruel system of government (check out Amnesty International if you are interested in the way Taliban, for example, executes governance of it's state), if their people are aware of our freedoms.  Only by calling us as the Great Satan and declaring Jihad.  Nothing else is rational to their minds.

If we do not address this now at the level of civilization and power, a weapon of mass destruction will be used in the next 25 years in the west.  There are many countries in the Middle East with developmental programs.

Let us consider the current events in this light and realize that the perceived abuses in the world, by the reigning superpower, is balanced by two things.  The US' "Marshall Plans" to clean up historically Germany, Japan, and Europe, and more recently many other countries in the world.   The scale of abuses by countries such as Afghanistan far, far outweigh our actions, IMHO.  Consider how the Taliban came to power and how they have solidified that power.   We are lucky to have such a state of affairs that we can debate these issues.

sorry for dragging this on, but in this case I hereby turn in my suit of liberalism and go hard-line conservative.
regards,
Rob

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andrew C. Greenberg" <werdna at mucow.com>
> It is, of course, useful for other purposes to understand motives of an 
> enemy who would do this, perhaps to better anticipate how to prevent 
> them from doing further harm and to apprehend them -- but for no other 
> reasons that come to mind.
> 
> Their "reasons" are otherwise irrelevant.  Appeasement for terrorism is 
> not an option.  However, our reasons and justifications for our conduct 
> must, as Richard suggested, be carefully considered.  On the other hand, 
> apart from strategic and tactical planning, which is quite hard, this is 
> not anywhere near a close question.
> 
> On Monday, September 17, 2001, at 07:10  PM, Richard A. O'Keefe wrote:
> 
> > Stephen Pair wrote:
> >
> > Cees, if you think that I, as an American, am going to stop for even a
> > second and ponder why this act was committed, you are sorely mistaken.
> > My only concern in this matter is justice.
> > 
> > This is getting us even further off topic, but
> > HOW THE HELL CAN WE HAVE JUSTICE WITHOUT PONDERING?
> >
> > It is *essential* to understand why the act was committed in order to
> > take *effective* steps to stop further deaths of the innocent.  It is
> > precisely the refusal to ponder on *both* sides which has brought us
> > this far.  I fully agree that the people who did this dreadful thing 
> > must
> > be brought to justice.  But what should be done to stop other people
> > wanting to do the same kind of thing?
> >
> > Wars have a terrible habit of killing even more innocent people, and
> > laying up hatred for more wars in the future.  (Like WWI leading to 
> > WWII.)
> > That isn't justice.
> >
> > If I became dictator of this country, I would do two things:
> >
> > 1.  Cause to be written in large letters in the House of Parliament and
> >     in every court this quotation from Oliver Cromwell:
> >
> > Brethren, I beseech you in the bowels of Christ,
> > CONSIDER IT POSSIBLE THAT YOU MAY BE WRONG.
> >
> > 2.  Resign.
> 
>