Hello again all,

	Well, from what I have read so far, squeak isn't really built for what I
want, but at the same time, it can do some of it.  Please correct me on any
of the following if it is incorrect:

1) External applications, stand alone, aren't really what Squeak was meant
for, but they are doable.
2) The bulletproofing options, allow you to turn off the programming ability
of squeak in an image.

	As an example of something close to what I would want... how about a mail
client.  (I know it already has one in it, just follow me.)  If I wanted to
make a stand-alone mail client in squeak, perhaps a commercial product, for
example.  The mail client itself would have a window.  Then, if I say new
message, I get a new window to type the message in.  The new window is an
independent window from the original mail client.  I can drag the new window
outside the environment of the original window.  The new window isn't
restricted to the bounds of the old one.  If I had another program (speaking
in windows terms here) open behind the two mail windows, I would still be
able to see what is going on in that window, assuming that the mail client
windows were not full screen.  Like David said, I could still interact with
other objects and windows that are controlled by the OS.

	So, ideally, I would like a squeak application (stand-alone) that could
have more than one window, is not full screen, and has no world background.
To put even more trouble into it, how about having the windows that are up,
be shaped windows.

	Sorry if these question are newbie-ish or if they have been asked a million
times, but I am a newbie.  Thanks again for any help you can provide.

Malachi


-----Original Message-----
From: squeak-dev-admin at lists.squeakfoundation.org
[mailto:squeak-dev-admin at lists.squeakfoundation.org]On Behalf Of Ned
Konz
Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 1:02 PM
To: squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org
Subject: Re: No Background?


On Monday 01 April 2002 12:58 pm, Malachi Clark wrote:
> Thank you.  That gets me a step closer, now, the question still stands if
I
> can make the world background transparent?  I want to be able to see
and/or
> interact with things 'behind' the squeak environment, to turn off the
> background and ScreenController, and just have what I want out there.  Is
> that possible with squeak as it stands now?

What do you mean "interact with things behind"? If you're trying to have
multiple objects in Squeak that each have their own OS-level window, that's
not provided for in the stock Squeak as far as I know.

Perhaps Andreas could suggest something with ExternalScreens.

The problem is a basic packaging one: stock Squeak gets one (or 2 in the
case
of full-screen X) OS-level windows. The windowing system generally will only
send input to a window that has input focus (however that's determined).

All of the objects that are drawn in Squeak are drawn on one big display
surface that's mapped to the one window.

I'm sure other models are possible, but not out of the box.

Perhaps if you could share what you're trying to accomplish we could help.

Some possibilities off the top of my head:

* multiple Squeaks running, each in their own (perhaps borderless) window
* one Squeak using multiple ExternalScreens to draw on (lots of work
probably)
* interact with window manager to change Z order of other windows as needed
* do all of what you have to do in one full-screen Squeak

--
Ned Konz
currently: Stanwood, WA
email:     ned at bike-nomad.com
homepage:  http://bike-nomad.com