Hi, Henrik,

The worst manifestation of the kind of situation you describe was 
present for a few months in the image, between the publishing of 
update 4722fixScrollbarOnRight-sm.cs in early December 2001 and the 
arrival of update 4789scrollBarAgain-dew.cs in March 2002.  Between 
those two updates, there was an inappropriately aggressive 
comeToFront call in the scrollbar-display code that could make 
windows gratuitously leap in front of naked morphs one was 
interacting with.

But it's still unquestionably true that even though this problem was 
fixed, interactions between windows and naked morphs in Morphic have 
long been problematical in various ways, and that projects which have 
both windows and naked morphs concurrently present and overlapping 
are still subject to various annoyances and inconsistencies.

However, these issues are AFAIK entirely independent of the 
menu-keyboard feature.  As you observed yourself, turning the 
menu-keyboard preference on or off makes no difference to the 
problems.

I originally proposed that the default value for menuKeyboardControl 
be false  not because of any putative bugs but simply because it 
seemed more like a power-user feature, one that could be very 
perplexing to a new, unsuspecting user, and indeed a feature that 
even some powerful users (such as Andreas) do *not* want.

But the only discussion about this preference that appeared on the 
list was in favor of having it on, so in the latest round it went 
back on by default.  However, thinking a little more about this, I 
guess I still would support having it off by default after all, not 
because a majority of our community do not use the feature (quite 
possibly a majority *do* use it) but rather out of the same 
avoid-gratuitous-surprises grounds that have made the discussion 
favor out-of-the-box scrollbars that stay up and are positioned on 
the right.

Cheers,

   -- Scott


At 4:31 PM +0100 4/26/02, Henrik Gedenryd wrote:
>Doug Way wrote:
>
>>>  (menuKeyboardControl false) -> true
>>
>>  Yes, good catch.
>
>I've said this before, but:
>
>The menu keyboard control should be removed in my opinion. It adds quite a
>few serious focus bugs while adding a rarely used feature.
>
>Try opening a browser and then creating a large morph (such as a drawing)
>that partially overlaps it, then try to work with the morph, and watch
>yourself being driven crazy. The window rises to the top as the pointer
>passes over certain parts of it.
>
>Turning the preference off removes the functionality but leaves the bugs in
>place, so that doesn't solve anything.
>
>Please remove it.
>
>Henrik