On Tue, 30 Apr 2002, Richard A. O'Keefe wrote:

> Good point at the end,
> skip the rest if you aren't interested in the argument.
[snip]
> OK, HERE's THE GOOD POINT.
> 
> There are two ways of using mail services.
> I suppose you might call them the "institutional user" and "home user" ways.

Furthermore, there are at least two sorts of submitters...those who use
Celeste and those who don't want to. The latter may include those who use
an alternative client or just don't want to use *any* client in
Squeak. And they don't have to. Squeak can mail stuff directly and
immediately.

> I've been using E-mail systems since 1979, always as an "institutional user".
> In this setting, which is the original RFC 821 (SMPT) setting, when you
> tell your mail user agent "send this message", it may send it immediately,
> or it may put it in a "spooling" area and send it later, but not _much_
> later, typically at most an hour or two.  As far as you are concerned,
> the message is _sent_ immediately.  Maybe it's resting at a local
> "post office" (the spooling area), but it's already on it's way right now.

I submitted a goodie a ways back (I think) that wrote right to SMTPSocket
instead of queuing in Celeste. Thus, if you dumped Celeste from your image
you could use mail to list.

[snip] 
> Apparently Celeste users are happy with the way it works.  I have not
> the slightest wish that they should be made to do anything different.
> However, in my environment, where the STMP server is on the same network
> as the machine running Squeak, there is absolutely no advantage in
> queueing the mail.  (Except of course that you have one more chance to
> avoid sending a bad-mannered message.)  There is, in contrast, a big
> advantage in sending mail right away.

Definitely. And there are other advantages to using Celeste. I often have
several images open at a time, but I only want one to be my "celeste
image", yet I'd still like to submit from all these images without having
to throw change sets around (and, as far as I know, there's no mail to
list from the filelist). There's no clean way to bundle muliple discrete
changesets (and, oh, documentation files), etc. etc. etc.

Plus, there are other places one might want to submit (to each other, to
the SuperSwiki, to SCAN, to the Swiki, etc.). And perhaps more "types" of
things to submit (i.e., test cases, comments, docs, etc.)

Anyhoo, what I'm suggesting is that taking a step back and looking at the
whole framework might be a good idea. If we do it right, then upgrading,
oh, Bert's tools shouldn't be bad at all.

[snip]
> I propose the following change to Celeste.  For all I know, it may already
> have been made in Squeak 3.2, but if not, I hope someone will do it.
> 
> A "Mister Postman" window has two big buttons at the top,
> "send message" and "add attachment".  Change this to three:
> "send message later", "send message now", and "add attachment".
> "send message now" should open up an SMPT socket and send the
> message right away.

Ah, here's my [ENH] (sorry, not a goodie):

	http://swiki.gsug.org:8080/sqfixes/1528.html

Yay sqfixes!

It may not entirely work as is as it prolly uses older preference
structure.

Note it didn't do *quite* what you asked, as it avoids Celeste altogether.

Cheers,
Bijan Parsia.