Irritated? No - I thought it was funny.

Regards,

David


At 02:21 PM 12/6/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>Hi David,
>
> >  I have never seen game design done this way.
> > Speed comes from architecture.
> > Anyone that tries to build a fast system and then
> > fit an architecture to it will never ship a game.
>
>     I believe so. Maybe whoever wrote/said
>     about those 3 steps had the cheek firmly
>     against the tounge and I  took it too literally.
>     ( Just like I took gamma for gamma,
>       though obviuosly it is pre-alpha. :-)
>
>     I sincerely wish that you are not irritated.
>
>     Full diclosure, my gaming experience
>     does not go any futher than FreeCell ;-)
>     let alone designing game and game engine.
>
>     Thanks for all the hard work that you
>     and the team had put into Croquet.
>
>     I am looking forward to the next release of Croquet.
>
>     Cheers,
>
>     PhiHo.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "David A. Smith" <davidasmith at bellsouth.net>
>To: <squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org>
>Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 11:29 PM
>Subject: Re: Croquet alpha release(s?)
>
>
> > The "gamma" label is my fault. I forgot the order (though I guess it is
> > pretty obvious). The official label of the current version is "pre-alpha".
> >
> > I have never seen game design done this way. Speed comes from
>architecture.
> > Anyone that tries to build a fast system and then fit an architecture to
>it
> > will never ship a game.
> >
> > DAS
> >
> >
> > At 10:19 PM 12/4/2002 -0500, you wrote:
> > >On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 09:27:03PM -0500, PhiHo Hoang wrote:
> > > > > We haven't done any performance testing or tweaking at this point.
> > > >
> > > >     According to Alan, 'This is a "gamma" release' already.
> > > >     (alpha and beta were not released ?)
> > >
> > >I noticed that, too.  I took the liberty of interpreting that as
> > >"pre-alpha".  Was it 3.2 that had a gamma phase right before it was
> > >finalized?
> > >
> > >I would normally expect gamma to mean "the release to polish off the
> > >final bugs, and get some input from the community about shortcomings
> > >in the documentation, etc".
> > >
> > > >
> > > >     Is it still too early for preformance testing ?
> > > >
> > > >     I remember reading somewhere, game/game engine
> > > >     developing should go thru 3 steps in order:
> > > >
> > > >     1/- First, make it fast, things should move at supersonic speed
> > > >     (and who cares about few pixels off here and there.)
> > > >
> > > >     2/- Second, make it correct  (hey, look at that guy, he's
> > > >     been fighting for hours and has not a signle drop of sweat
> > > >     on his face :-)
> > > >
> > > >     3/- Third, make it right (like exposing props/attrs
> > > >     through interface instead of exporting them ;-)
> > >
> > >This isn't really traditional game engine design.  For instance, one
> > >of the explicit goals is to support end-user programming.  Therefore,
> > >3 isn't an afterthought to be addressed if there happens to be time.
> > >
> > >Joshua
> > >
> > > >
> > > >     Anyway, thanks for the info, Andreas.
> > > >
> > > >     Cheers,
> > > >
> > > >     PhiHo.
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Andreas Raab" <andreas.raab at gmx.de>
> > > > To: <squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 4:44 AM
> > > > Subject: RE: Croquet alpha release(s?)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > >     How would you compare, performance-wise, Croquet to
> > > > > >
> > > > > >         1/- RuneScape http://www.runescape.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > >         2/- WildTangent http://www.wildtangent.com
> > > > >
> > > > > We haven't done any performance testing or tweaking at this point.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > but the addition of the TeaTime collaboration object
>model/protocol
> > > > > > > and the new scripting architecture will have a dramatic impact
> > > > > > > on the nature of how you program for the system.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >     Does it have any impact on performance ?
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes and no. It's sort of comparing C and Smalltalk - from the "raw"
> > > > > perspective of microbenchmarks it will certainly be much slower.
>Yet, it
> > > > > won't matter (or not very often) since what you're doing is to 90%
> > > > > graphics bound and then the added flexibility and resiliency of the
> > > > > architecture will kick in.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers,
> > > > >   - Andreas
> > > > >
> > > > >
> >
> >