Okay,

	I'll calm down now.  I like Andreas's proposal here.  I'll volunteer to do this, but I won't have time to get to it until next week unless somebody else would prefer to do it.


						-Dean

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andreas Raab [mailto:andreas.raab at gmx.de]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 4:26 PM
> To: squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org
> Subject: RE: Automatic selection of '--all--'
> 
> 
> Dean and all,
> 
> There's no reason to flame nor to blame here. This entire thread has
> been taken out of context of other messages. So let's try to 
> summarize:
> There is an apparent problem at this point if you try to add class
> variables. This is because there is a pattern match in the browser
> trying to recognize the '*subclass:' for class definitions if the '--
> all --' category is selected. The proposal has been made to change the
> pattern match that it "better recognizes" any attempt to 
> define a class
> when you hit accept while '-- all --' is selected. 
> 
> Looking at the code it appeared to me that all of this is due to the
> fact that if the '-- all --' category is selected we may or 
> may not try
> to define a class or a message. Since a category is selected you may
> expect to define a message. But since the '-- all --' 
> category shows the
> class definition when selected it is equally reasonable 
> trying to define
> a class rather than a message. That's the heart of the problem.
> 
> My proposal was basically recognizing the fact that if a category is
> selected you should expect to edit a method and not a class 
> definition.
> There is nothing wrong with the '-- all --' category itself. What is
> wrong is the inability to distinguish between "class definition mode"
> and "method definition mode" when '-- all --' is selected. One way of
> solving this problem would be show all of the selectors even if no
> category is selected. This preserves the intent of automatically
> selecting the '-- all --' category (namely to give an overview of the
> entire protocol of some class) without getting into the trouble of
> trying to do magic pattern matches if it is selected. In 
> which case it'd
> be very simple: You select a method category, you edit a method. You
> have no category selected, you edit the class definition.
> 
> That's really all there is to it.
> 
> Cheers,
>   - Andreas
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: squeak-dev-admin at lists.squeakfoundation.org 
> > [mailto:squeak-dev-admin at lists.squeakfoundation.org] On 
> > Behalf Of Swan, Dean
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 10:07 PM
> > To: 'squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org'
> > Subject: RE: Automatic selection of '--all--'
> > 
> > 
> > Guys,
> > 
> > 	I don't know if this thread was instigated by my post 
> > of 25 November, and I haven't really had the time to spend on 
> > this as I intend, *BUT* the browser *IS* currently broken.  
> > With the '--all--' category selected, and typing a new method 
> > into the edit pane, 'accept' should *NOT* give the weird 
> > error messages that it is giving.  They offer no clue, 
> > whatsoever as to what the *real* problem is.
> > 
> > 	The browser used to create the 'as yet unclassified' 
> > category and add the new method.  This is the behavior that 
> > would reasonably be expected, as opposed to 'Nothing More 
> > Expected', or 'Unknown Variable', which is what it gives now 
> > depending on whether the new method has parameters or not.
> > 
> > 	It would be great if Chris could fix the bug, since 
> > he's far more familiar with the code, but if somebody else 
> > doesn't fix it, I will.  The current state of affairs not 
> > only FORCES one to use method categories, it gives 
> > misleading, confusing, and JUST PLAIN WRONG error messages 
> > that give no hint as to what the real problem is.
> > 
> > 	Sorry for flaming here, but breaking something like 
> > this that used to work should just be embarrassing.  The 
> > automatic selection of '--all--' is nice, but the behavior 
> > prior to this "enhancement" did not give useless error 
> > messages if you tried to add a new method when the '--all--' 
> > category is selected.  There is nothing about the '--all--' 
> > category that ever made me think I should not be able to add 
> > a new method to it.
> > 
> > 					-Dean Swan
> > 
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Norton, Chris [mailto:chrisn at Kronos.com]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 3:17 PM
> > > To: 'squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org'
> > > Subject: RE: Automatic selection of '--all--'
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Since Carl & I implemented the '--all--' feature, I'm 
> > invested in this
> > > discussion; sorry I missed out on the earlier thread.
> > > 
> > > The intention of the '--all--' feature is clear, I think.  
> > > Prior to the
> > > feature, the browsers were very unfriendly, in that you had 
> > > to hunt & peck
> > > through each method category to find a method.  
> > > 
> > > The intentional implementation of this feature is that when 
> > > you click on a
> > > class, the '--all--' category will be selected by default, 
> > > offering you a
> > > quick look at a pane-full of the available protocol.  At least one
> > > commercial Smalltalk works this way (Visual Smalltalk Enterprise).
> > > 
> > > The original design of the '--all--' feature also provided 
> > for adding
> > > methods while the '--all--' is selected.  The new method 
> > > should go into the
> > > 'as yet unclassified' category, which should be dynamically 
> > > generated if it
> > > does not already exist.
> > > 
> > > I was not aware that this feature was broken.  I guess I 
> > > normally create or
> > > select categories prior to creating new methods.
> > > 
> > > In my opinion, we should just fix the bug(s) so that the 
> > > feature works as I
> > > originally designed it to work.
> > > 
> > > Cheers,
> > > 
> > > ---==> Chris
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> 
>