On Thursday, March 14, 2002, at 12:18 AM, Richard A. O'Keefe wrote:

> Once again, you are assuming that I *knew* there was a TextPrinter,

No I am not.

> and that I *knew* this menu item only applied to text morphs,

No I am not.

> and you are attacking me for consciously criticising it for not
> doing something else.

No I am not.

> No, I DIDN'T know those things, and that's precisely the point I keep
> trying to make.  I've been using Squeak for years and I *still* feel
> like a newbie,

Same here.  So when something doesn't work as I expect, I tend to ask 
"did I do something wrong" instead of saying "doesn't look good".

> and I think I've demonstrated quite clearly that I still
> *act* like one sometimes.

So do I.

> Yes, but I didn't know they were two different things.

Neither did I.

>  I wanted to print a Morph.  The one I tried happened to have text in 
> it.  I found something
> that offered to print, and did NOT say "by the way, I only print text".

Yes.  So you made an honest mistake.  That is no crime.  Just don't 
blame me or the Morphic-Printing code for it.  That is all i am asking.

> If it had worked, perhaps I might have figured it out, but it didn't 
> work.

> 	Hmm, you *did* search much more deeply than I ever have to stumble 
> upon
> 	the fairly well hidden TextPrinter
>
> No, I didn't search deeply.

Yes, you searched more deeply than I ever have.  I have never 
seen/noticed this particular sub-menu.

>   I tried the most obvious thing.
> I use Option-mouse a *lot*.

So do I.  But I almost never go further than the mouse-menu.

>   So does anyone who uses Squeak.

Well, then you use Squeak more than I do.

> In contrast, I *never* use Control-mouse.

(a) you don't have to use Control-mouse.  You can also get the 
morph-menu via the halo.

>  Indeed, I had forgotten it existed.

And I had forgotten there was a 'more...' button on the option-mouse 
menu.  How does this make your criticism more valid?

>  (This despite having used Squeak for 3 years.)  The only items
> in the Control-mouse menu I understand "keep this menu up", "inspect",
> "explore", "collapse", and "delete", so I gave up using that menu in
> favour of the halo long ago.

The morphic menu is available from the halo.  Little red thingy next to 
the top-left corner.

>   So it never ever occurs to me to look for anything there.

This is OK.  But don't blame others for this.

[big snip]

> Faced with an absence of adequate documentation,
> I tried the most obvious thing, and it didn't work.
> I said so.
> What I said is TRUE.

No.

It was an honest mistake, but it was not true.  Do I really have to pull 
in the quote?

> The statement "Not encouraging" is fair comment.

No, it was a mistaken comment.  It was an honest mistake, but a mistake 
nonetheless.

The mistake was due to all sorts of circumstance, most of which are 
beyond both your and my control.  So I don't really see what you're 
getting all upset about.

[snip]

> I should comment at this point that using Control-mouse or Halo-menu
> in a Scamper window (taking care to drill down to the actual Web Page)
> is NOT a substitute for printing.  Because you don't get the entire web
> page, just the part that is showing on the screen.

This would be because Scamper hasn't been modified for printing, like 
BookMorph has.  The Morph has full control over what it sends to the 
printer, with its visible screen representation being the 'fall-back' if 
nothing else is implemented.  The reason Scamper hasn't been modified is 
probably because nobody has felt a need for it so far.

So go ahead.  It isn't that difficult.

> As a user, I don't have to know "what it is that [I'm] slamming" to

Well, then we will just have to agree to disagree.  If you think that 
Squeak is a system for that kind of attitude, be my guest.  Use Word or 
something.  All I ask is a bit more deliberation and a bit more courtesy.

> Wouldn't it be nice, wouldn't it be helpful, if the menu item in
> question had a help balloon which said "Write an Encapsulated Postscript
> file" (I was expecting .ps for what looked like a text window) 
> "containing
> what's visible in the window" (I was expecting all of the page)

What is stopping you?  GO AHEAD!

Marcel

--
Marcel Weiher				Metaobject Software Technologies
marcel at metaobject.com		www.metaobject.com
Metaprogramming for the Graphic Arts.   HOM, IDEAs, MetaAd etc.