Hi,

I totally agree with you Stephane. I faced the same problems when 
making MetaclassTalk. The classbuilder is not clean at all. And in 
many kernel classes, one can find methods with hundreds of lines and 
hardwirings. This make any experiments with core Squeak classes heavy...

Note: My intent is not to blame people who wrote the code, but to make 
Squeak become better...

Noury

Stephane Ducasse a écrit:
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm one of the lucky guys working with nathanael here and I can tell you 
> what
> is really needed for traits :
> 
>     - a clean classBuilder (we may do that)
>     - a real clean ***from scratch*** browser that we could use (and not 
> patching
>     again this BAD browser)
>     - a real scanner/parser/AST that is not buggy.
> 
> Don't think that I'm too strong, I'm just right. I tried to build a pretty
> printer with Squeak, nathanael patched everywhere Squeak and now we are 
> at the limits.
> 
> We are about to decide in which dialect we will develop the next 
> generation of
> Traits/Modules/....This would be great to build that on top of Squeak
> but sometimes the quality of certain parts is really getting into our 
> way/nerves....
>  So the way to go is to use Smacc and RB parseTree.
> 
> May be we should look at the ClassBuilder form VW and replace the one in 
> Squeak.
> And we should definitively throw away the browser.
> 
> Stef
> 
> So if you are interested to participate contact nathanael.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, February 4, 2003, at 07:22 PM, Nathanael Schärli wrote:
> 
>>> In section 11 of the Tutorial you talk about displaying a
>>> tree structure for deeply nested sub-traits. Since traits can
>>> be "flattened" conceptually, couldn't you avoid the tree structure?
>>
>>
>> Well, it is true that traits can always be flattened and therefore you
>> don't need such a tree view in order to understand the code. However,
>> sometimes it is very useful to look at the code in a "compositional
>> view"
>>
>> Let's say you are browsing the class ColoredCircle. By default, the
>> browser shows it in a flat way and you don't need to worry whether it is
>> built by using traits at all. However, the browser should indicate, that
>> this class is actually built from traits and it should allow you to see
>> more details by clicking on something like the (+) icon of the tree
>> widget. Then, you can see all the traits (e.g., TCircle, TColor) the
>> class uses. In order to be consistent, the browser should now also
>> indicate, that the trait TCircle is built as a composition of multiple
>> traits. Then, the user can, if he wants, again click on the (+) icon of
>> the widget and see the details (i.e., traits TMagnitude and TGeometry).
>> Etc.
>>
>> The current browser only shows one nesting level. This means that for
>> the class ColoredCircle, you see the traits TCircle and TColor. If you
>> want to see more, you need to go to the definition of these subtraits.
>>
>> This means that there is a "compositional view", but its depth is
>> limited to 2. I think it should be unlimited...
>>
>> Nathanael
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: squeak-dev-bounces at lists.squeakfoundation.org
>>> [mailto:squeak-dev-bounces at lists.squeakfoundation.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Doug Mair
>>> Sent: Dienstag, 4. Februar 2003 19:04
>>> To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list
>>> Subject: Re: Traits prototype image
>>>
>>>
>>> Very impressive work.
>>>
>>> In section 11 of the Tutorial you talk about displaying a
>>> tree structure for deeply nested sub-traits. Since traits can
>>> be "flattened" conceptually, couldn't you avoid the tree structure?
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Nathanael Schärli" <n.schaerli at gmx.net>
>>> To: <squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 8:37 AM
>>> Subject: Traits prototype image
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> I finally released a first version of our trait prototype
>>>
>>> image. More
>>>
>>>> information can be found at:
>>>>
>>>>
>>> http://www.iam.unibe.ch/>
>>
>> ~schaerli/smalltalk/traits/traitsPrototype.htm
>>
>>>>
>>>> There, you can also read more about our future plans and
>>>
>>> why there is
>>>
>>>> no changeset available yet.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Nathanael
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
> Prof. Dr. Stéphane DUCASSE (ducasse at iam.unibe.ch) 
> http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~ducasse/
>  "if you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you do
>  different? ... especially if, by doing something different, today
>  might not be your last day on earth" Calvin&Hobbes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


-- 
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Dr. Noury Bouraqadi
Ecole des Mines de Douai - Dept. G.I.P
http://csl.ensm-douai.fr/noury
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