> I would really be sure that what you are mentioning is working. Do we 
> have installers for mac and windows that install squeak correctly as
> you mention? This would help me a lot to present how to start squeak.

http://squeakland.org/plugin/download.html

> 
> Stef
> 
> 
> 
> On Sunday, January 19, 2003, at 03:53 PM, Andreas Raab wrote:
> 
> > Stephane,
> >
> > A general comment:
> >> So I thought that having a consistent naming would be good 
> for them.
> >
> > Dead wrong (or rather: entirely besides the point). The teachers (I 
> > should
> > say: all but hardcore Smalltalk people) do neither care 
> about VM nor 
> > image.
> > They care about the APPLICATION and they don't give a [beep] about 
> > whether
> > it is composed of a bunch of files or not (do you care that 
> any of your
> > preferred apps require a few files? no, all that matters is 
> that the 
> > APP
> > runs)
> >
> > So having an installer which puts a shortcut on the desktop 
> or into the
> > start menu would be good for them. Which - not quite 
> incidentally - is 
> > what
> > the plugin installer does.
> >
> > Then, there is no need to worry about either VM or image: 
> There is only
> > Squeak. Period. And the shortcut is actually what is handling the 
> > complexity
> > for us - since it can refer to a specific VM+image pair so 
> that there 
> > can be
> > arbitrary versions of Squeak living side by side without having to 
> > worry
> > about any of the "implicit complexities" of finding images, 
> or VMs or
> > whatever else.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >   - Andreas
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: squeak-dev-bounces at lists.squeakfoundation.org
> >> [mailto:squeak-dev-bounces at lists.squeakfoundation.org] On
> >> Behalf Of Stephane Ducasse
> >> Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 3:38 PM
> >> To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list
> >> Subject: Re: A squeak3.4 VM will be needed
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi andreas
> >>
> >> You have certainly more thought about it that I. In fact, I
> >> do not care
> >> if the vm is named Squeak.exe or Squeak3.4.exe but not 
> Squeak3.2.b8.
> >>
> >> Also what I see with my wife and her school is that she 
> have to ask a
> >> guy not knowing too much about computers to install Squeak. I
> >> tried to
> >> convince him to just use a bundle with everything inside 
> for all the
> >> machines there. This was not without energy because
> >> people like network and shared stuff putting the vm in one 
> place and
> >> images in another one....
> >>
> >> So to conclude, for me the solution is that teachers and
> >> other that do
> >> not have the time
> >> to really get into it do not have Squeak3.2 VM getting 
> executed when
> >> clicking on a 3.4 image if this breaks.
> >>
> >> So I thought that having a consistent naming would be good 
> for them.
> >>
> >>> Nitpick: Most people new to Squeak who do not know about the
> >>> significance of
> >>> the "image" will double click the executable and NOT the image.
> >>> Therefore it
> >>> is mostly not the image that "looks for a file name" but
> >> rather the VM
> >>> (and
> >>> I went to some length to make this work in a way that the 
> VM will -
> >>> unless
> >>> it is ambigious - find the "right" image).
> >>>
> >>> Secondly, even many people who do know about "images"
> >> probably do not
> >>> have a
> >>> persistent association between "image" files and the executable in
> >>> which
> >>> case they are likely to use DnD for starting Squeak.
> >>
> >> I think that starting with Drag and Drop is a really 
> secure way. One
> >> experienced teacher told me that....I never thought about 
> that before.
> >>
> >>> Only if they have an association between .image and a 
> Squeak VM the
> >>> system
> >>> will go digging for it. And here, the file name of the VM
> >> matters only
> >>> insofar as that there are no real choices - the registry only says
> >>> "start
> >>> C:\Foo\Bar\Squeak.exe when the user double clicks on an 
> image". (so
> >>> there
> >>> are no choices for *all* of the images).
> >>>
> >>> The latter is partly why I like naming the VM just 
> "Squeak.exe" for
> >>> all but
> >>> the most experienced Squeakers. It encourages them to think
> >> about the
> >>> VM as
> >>> "essentially the same" across all versions (which is true -
> >> you can run
> >>> everything back to Squeak 1.1 on the latest VMs) and (for
> >> the largest
> >>> part)
> >>> not to worry about "uh... now this is Squeak 3.4 VM ...
> >> will this work
> >>> if I
> >>> try to start Squeak3.2.image with it???"
> >>
> >> I can agree this is much better than Squeak3.2b5... (I'm 
> not talking
> >> about not public release here). Every times john makes a new
> >> version I
> >> like with the numbering so I can identify which one I'm 
> working with
> >> (thanks for your job John;)).
> >>
> >> stef
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> Dr. Stéphane DUCASSE (ducasse at iam.unibe.ch) 
> http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~ducasse/
>   "if you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you do
>   different? ... especially if, by doing something different, today
>   might not be your last day on earth" Calvin&Hobbes
> 
> 
>