Thanks You very much Aaron by your very detailed response!

Here , in Argentina, cheap is a must in these times, regrettably.

I think that I can get a Jornada 545 16MB and with an extra card of 48 MB, a
total of 64 MB RAM, but that can't change the slow processor of 133 Mhz :(

About your question, the processor is an Hitachi SH3 133 Mhz, I've read.

By one hand, I'm managing a possible project to PDA environment, and need to
test in a real PDA, not only in an emulator.

But, my main interest is not only use the PDA as user, else use it as
developer (I can't afford a notebook here, too many expensive), do you think
that is possible to work (at least a bit when I'm away of my desktop
computer) with a PDA?

Thanks Again by your help.

---
Germán S. Arduino
http://www.dimensionO.com



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Aaron J Reichow" <reic0024 at d.umn.edu>
To: "The general-purpose Squeak developers list"
<squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 3:15 AM
Subject: Re: HP Jornada 545


On Mon, 2 Jun 2003, [iso-8859-1] Germán S. Arduino wrote:

> I'm trying to develop an app to run in some hand-helds.
>
> I'm evaluating to purchase one used HP Jornada 545, 16 MB RAM, 16MB ROM,
> Processor Hitachi 32 bits, Stéreo Sound and WinCE as operating system to
try
> and make the tests.
>
> I have 0 experience developing that type of apps, can anyone tell me if is
a
> good configuration to use Squeak?
>
> Is anyone using Squeak in a Jornada model like this?

I cannot say whether or not anyone on the list is using that model Jornada
for running Squeak.  I can say, however, what most people seem to be
using to run Squeak.

This model Jornada has a 131 Mhz or so processor, right?  I think it could
be a bit slow, although it would be pretty usable in MVC.  In Morphic,
which is the GUI system I would generally reccomend on any PDA, something
a little faster would be better.

I think a good group of specs for running Squeak on a PDA are:
* 206 MHz StrongARM or 300-400 MHz XScale
* 32 MB of RAM
* ROM size isn't an issue unless you are planning on reflashing it with a
stripped and Squeak

Naturally, with the CPU and RAM, more is better. The fastest thing you can
get in the US is an XScale PXA255 at 400 MHz.  Most of the XScale 400 MHz
PDAs are running with an older revision, the PXA250, which isn't much
faster than the 206 MHz StrongARM- so don't be tricked by the bigger
number.

I am not sure what your budget is, but you can pick up a 36xx model
Compaq iPAQ for relatively cheap used.  You can get a new Dell Axim X5
Basic with 32  MB of RAM and a 300 MHz XScale for around US$200-$225.

One thing to keep in mind regardless of the model you decide on is the
amount of RAM that the PDA has.  Squeak generally needs about 2 MB + the
size of the image in available MB of RAM on the WinCE device to run.  Even
if you use a memory mapped file, you still need that 2 MB + image MB to
start Squeak- the new memory provided by the memory mapped file will only
show up to the Squeak system when running, not to the VM when its doing
its initial setup.  What does that mean?  If you have a 16 MB PDA, you'll
still be confined to a smaller image and you'll need a memory card for
storing the image, VM, and any other Squeak files you need for your setup.

To get around this VM startup memory limit, you could always have an image
with a lot of stuff dumped out using image segments that you load at start
up.  If you are just wanting to use MVC, all of these space things aren't
as much an issue- you can fit a little MVC image with networking and some
other usefull stuff in less than 2 MB.

I used to develop Dynapad (http://spe.sf.net - Squeak-based PDA
Environment)  on an iPAQ 3150 with 16 MB of RAM.  Thanks to Yoshiki-san's
wonderful WinCE VM, Squeak can use a memory mapped file on your storage
card- swap more or less.

If you can afford it, I really reccomend a PDA with 32 MB of RAM. On the
32 MB Jornada 720 I have, I've been able to run the newest Squeak releases
without any modification with that big 32 MB of RAM.  On a 16 MB WinCE
PDA, you're confined to an image about 6 MB in size, considering you have
a couple MBs with applications installed.  (the only app I had internally
was CalliGrapher)  On a 16 MB WinCE PDA with no memory card... Perhaps 2-4
MB.

I have done a lot with Squeak on various PDAs- both as a developer and
just as a user. Do not hesitate to ask any more questions regarding this
on the list or in private.  Heck, I am typing this message on my Jornada
720 under Squeak using the vt100 terminal and pine. :)

Regards,
Aaron

  Aaron Reichow  ::  UMD ACM Pres  ::  http://www.d.umn.edu/~reic0024/
"one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws"  :: m. l. king jr.