On Mon, Nov 03, 2003 at 11:14:38AM +0100, Peter van Rooijen wrote:
> From: "Joshua 'Schwa' Gargus" <schwa at cc.gatech.edu>
> > On Mon, Nov 03, 2003 at 12:52:49AM +0100, Peter van Rooijen wrote:
> > > From: "Joshua 'Schwa' Gargus" <schwa at cc.gatech.edu>
> > > > On Sun, Nov 02, 2003 at 10:36:17PM +0100, Peter van Rooijen wrote:
> > > > > From: "Marcus Denker" <marcus at ira.uka.de>
> > > > > > "I don't have time". No. This wrong:
> > > > > > People have time to participate in elaborate huge dicussions on
> this
> > > > > > list, they have time to actually produce changesets and submitt
> them.
> > > > >
> > > > > I agree 100%. I have time. I would be happy and proud to help.
> Nobody
> > > told
> > > > > me they wanted me to help. Is there somewhere I can sign up?
> > > >
> > > > Check out the "Harvesting Process" page on the swiki:
> > > > http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/3152
> > >
> > > Which exact part of that are you referring to? I don't see where it says
> "if
> > > you want to help get rid of the backlog of pending fixes, click here".
> >
> > Um, pretty much the whole thing; it describes how the whole process
> > works.
> 
> Thanks Joshua. I had read pretty much the whole thing. From that I had
> received a basic, but clear, understanding of how the harvesting process
> goes, and what the lifecycle of a submission is. I had not found a clear
> link to where you say you're ready to help. Still haven't seen it.
> 
> > You'd probably want to jump in at number 2) by providing
> > feedback to help the harvesters decide whether to accept the change.
> 
> Why at number 2)? Everyone can comment to this list already, it doesn't mean
> anything gets done with the comment. I don't want to just add traffic to
> this list. I've seen how that goes.

Have you seen the BFAV (Bug Fix Archive Viewer)?  If you use it, you
can automatically generate mails to the list in the proper format to
be understood and displayed by the BFAV.  By reviewing in this way,
you directly help the harvesters, because they're not reading the
[FIX] emails in Celeste, they're reading them (and filing in
attachments, etc) in the BFAV.  And the tool support will only get
better.

> I want to help in a much more targeted way. I want to shorten the list of
> pending fixes. I want to review a fix and respond with observations that can
> directly improve the "product".

My above comment applies here, too.

> 
> > If you wish to become a harvester instead of just reviewing changesets,
> > http://swiki.squeakfoundation.org/squeakfoundation/45
> > (linked off the previous URL I sent) says to "post a message to the
> > SqF mailing list" to convey your willingness to help out.
> 
> Okay, I googled for sqf "mailing list" and the fifth link "Potential
> Foundation Projects" leads to a page with a link "Foundation Mailing List",
> and after browsing the archives from there, it appears that this list
> "squeakfoundation at lists.squeakfoundation.org" is the list referred to as
> "the SqF mailing list".
> 
> I just subscribed.
> 
> > If this wasn't clear from the page, perhaps we can tweak the wording;
> > we don't want to discourage potential volunteers.  Was there something
> > unclear to you about the "Harvesting Process" page?
> 
> Yes. Like I said, it doesn't make it clear where someone who is ready to
> help should go. Perhaps it seems quite clear from the point of view from
> someone who already knows.

Yes, of course.  It is because I realized the difference between our
perspectives that I want your help in identifying exactly which parts
were annoying for you.  

The next step is for me to suggest that since the confusing
documentation is on a swiki, perhaps you could come up with some
better text that would be less confusing to newbies ("perhaps you can
come up yadda yadda..." :-)

> 
> In any case, with your help I have found the next steps, and let's see how
> this evolves.

Sorry it was so difficult, and thanks for your perseverance.
Joshua

> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Peter
> 
> > Joshua
>