Hi Peter and all!

"Peter van Rooijen" <squeak at vanrooijen.com> wrote:
> From: <goran.krampe at bluefish.se>
[SNIP]
> > Sure, it sounds like a major bug. But still - it is the first time I
> > even heard of it!
> > So there simply can not have been many people gotten bitten by this.
> 
> LOL. What does it mean to be 'bitten' by a bug? If the system won't allow
> you to define a class variable with a name that is in the global namespace,
> chances are you'll choose another name. Have you then been 'bitten'?

I would say yes. As I said - I was unaware of the bug and I have been
squeaking for about 7 years.

> My situation is different because the entire programs have already been
> written on various other dialects, so initially I merely need to load them
> into Squeak and I don't code them interactively in Squeak. Only after
> loading them do I go on to code the Squeak-specific parts interactively in
> the process of making all the tests pass on Squeak.

Yes, I understand.

> > Te problem here is that if you had posted about this simply a week
> > earlier then we could have taken action. We have had both a beta and a
> > gamma period. Those periods are there for a reason.
> > Yesterday we had the release.
> 
> :-). In fact I did post this a week ago! I knew there was a squeak-dev
> mailing list, googled for it, found it on Yahoo Groups, subscribed (I
> already had an account with Yahoo Groups to use other groups). It all went
> fine, but when I posted my post didn't show up. I guess I tried again, and
> then I gave up.

Hmmm, start here, this is the main portal of Squeak information:

	http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak

Look down the top page, find "Mailinglist" - read there. Or go directly
to it:

	http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/listinfo/squeak-dev

But as you are indeed posting - I assume you are now on the list... duh.
:-)

> Later I found out that you can't actually post to the list using that
> mechanism. Perhaps something to take note of. I doubt I am the first one who
> has been 'bitten' by this.

Probably.
 
> > > > However, we should certainly consider the fix for 3.7alpha.  Have you
> > > > already submitted a [FIX]?
> > >
> > > Like I said, I have not. But I would be happy to *if* we agree that this
> > > wants fixing.
> >
> > Of course we agree it wants fixing. BUT... mind you it might already be
> > fixed. It sure sounds like a Compiler problem and there is a brand new
> > Compiler just waiting to get into 3.7. So the issue might already be
> > solved.
> >
> > Can anyone with the new Compiler check/confirm this? Anthony?
> 
> Yes, that would be good to know. Is there a way for me to check this?

I think there is info on the Squeak Swiki (link above) about it. Don't
have time to check. Search for "Anthony" or "Closures" or "Compiler" or
something. :-) Somebody else can perhaps answer this.

> Supposing it has not been fixed yet, which version of Squeak should I use to
> build the fix? Where should I get that version from? Is it simply a new
> image and change log that I can copy over a 3.6-full installation?

If you have the 3.6 full then just use that. In order to turn the image
into a 3.7alpha image you can follow this instruction:
	http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/1585

And then simply pull out the left flap and click "load updates". It
should give you three updates or so - there aren't more yet to get. :-)

> > > I have no desire to write the fix, test it, find out how to submit it
> (is it
> > > okay to send a message to this list with a zipped changeset attached?),
> >
> > Just use "mail to list" in the changesorter. Dead simple, it does it all
> > for you.
> 
> Just tell me from which version of Squeak I am supposed to do this, and I
> can do it. I note that when I recently read the instructions for bug/fix
> reporting, they specified gzip compression. Is that really required or is
> zip format acceptable? People like me, who use Windows as their primary OS,
> don't usually gzip things. I could of course figure out how to do it, but
> would prefer not to if it is not in fact necessary.

As I said - it is dead simple. Just open a changesorter, create a new
changeset, make the fix and then do "mail to list" in the changesorter
on that changeset. It will do everything for you including gzip and
actually sending the fix etc.
 
> > > submit it, to be then told that this is a fundamental change for what is
> not
> > > a serious problem (because no one complained about it in years), and it
> > > might break something (although it should not, it might), so it won't
> get
> > > in.
> >
> > Of course it will "get in" - but not in 3.6! Because 3.6 was released
> > yesterday.
> >
> > > After all, a major part of my wanting this corrected is to be able to
> run my
> > > programs in an undoctored Squeak image. If that is not in the cards, I
> might
> > > as well make the changes without submitting them as a fix, or simply not
> > > bother about my programs running on Squeak.
> >
> > Come on now, nobody has said we ain't gonna fix it. But we can't
> > perpetually keep fixing stuff because then we would never get to a
> > release!
> >
> > If you submit a fix, it will get reviewed and harvested and quite
> > shortly pushed out into the 3.7alpha stream.
> 
> Help me understand this. Is it the process to have X.Yalpha1, then X.Yalpha2
> et cetera?

No. We have currently "3.7alpha". It will eventually turn into beta and
then gamma. Finally it gets released. FIXes mailed to the list are
harvested by the harvesters and eventually, when approved, put out as
"updates" which you can load using the "load updates" mechanism I
mentioned above.

> 
> > > BTW, there is a funny twist to this. I believe the license requires one
> to
> > > share changes made to certain parts of the system. I don't know exactly
> > > which parts of the system qualify, but I would not be surprised if the
> parts
> > > affected here do infact qualify. Then after that, I don't know what
> action
> > > constitutes sharing the fix :-).
> > >
> > > So, I would appreciate some guidance in this respect.
> >
> > Submit the FIX and behold, it will get in. If it doesn't suck of course.
> > :-)
> 
> It remains to be seen if it actually needs fixing in 3.7alpha(1?), and then
> if I can fix it, because I haven't tried to in any version after 3.5. Give
> me a hand here, I would like to contribute, but I don't know the procedures
> well enough to be able to be confident of doing it efficiently (e.g.,
> avoiding unnecessary work), I fear.

I hope I cleared some things up.

> Cheers,
> 
> Peter van Rooijen
> Amsterdam
> 
> P.S. I keep reading about a thing called "SqueakMap". What is it and how do
> I use it?

Ah. Sure, just do open->Package Loader. There you have an interactive
catalog of Squeak packages -currently counting over 300 packages. You
can also see it on the web at:

	http://map1.squeakfoundation.org/sm

Your local map is a mirror. You can make sure it is up to date by doing
"load updates from net".

regards, Göran