HttpView overhaul was: Re: Exploring Zope and ZPatterns [WEB][IDEA]

Jimmie Houchin jhouchin at texoma.net
Fri Oct 31 16:56:35 UTC 2003


goran.krampe at bluefish.se wrote:
> Jimmie Houchin <jhouchin at texoma.net> wrote:
[SNIP]
>>
>>>And no - HttpView is not as advanced as Seaside, but it is pretty nifty
>>>in itself. And soon there will be a nice article to read with samples
>>>etc! :-)

That's okay, HV does not compete with Seaside. They are different and 
both have value.

I personally was hoping you would keep working on HV. Seaside does not 
match my vision for my current project. But from what I see I think HV 
is a good fit. But I was hoping to keep with the current code for web 
development.

I am very glad to see HV progress that direction and look forward to it.

>>I most definitely think there is room for different web tool kits.
>>Not necessarily a proliferation, but a few to cover different views.
>>As Avi suggested sharing some infrastructure would be nice where 
>>beneficial to both tools.
> 
> Yes, I can promise you all that I will look into this (folding HV into
> Seaside or something similar) when I have the next release + article
> out!

I believe that cooperation and corroboration are good things where 
Seaside, HV, Swiki, Smallwiki, etc. truly have a common goal and 
purpose. Where they do not naturally overlap they each need to pursue 
their vision with excellence.

>>But it appears from my limited understanding of both Seaside and HV that 
>>they have different philosophies and perspectives and neither is wrong.
>>
>>Somethings that are very much a part of Seaside don't fit into my view 
>>of my current webapps. But they seem to work very well for Avi and 
>>company. Seaside seems to be a very unique and brilliant web environment.
>>
>>I currently very much want/need bookmarkable pages.
>>I currently very much want reasonable and readable URLs.
>>   ie: limited (preferrably none) state information embedded in the URL.
> 
> This is also a priority in HttpView.

Good, we agree.

>>Those are my priorities for my current project not Seasides.
>>If I am wrong about Seaside's ability to have bookmarkable pages by 
>>their nature not by explicitly defined entry points, please correct my 
>>understanding. I don't say this as a knock against Seaside. It has my 
>>utmost respect.
> 
> Same here. IMHO Seaside is the way to go for advanced apps. HttpView is
> more suited to simpler apps and is perhaps also more hackable (it is
> thinner and probably smaller, less magic).
> 
> But HV is also of course less capable and doesn't get rid of the HTTP
> flow.

I don't necessarily believe HV is less suited for advanced apps or is 
less capable. It is just different. Seaside does enable some pretty 
magical things. Seaside may have more WOW! factor, but HV is not uncapable.

There are places HV fits better than Seaside and the reverse is also true.

>>URL handling is one area I liked very much about Zope.
>>There is much I didn't, which is why I am no longer there. :)
> 
> The URL handling in HV is a bit manual currently - I am thinking about
> how to improve it for the next release. But improvement would be only in
> the details - the general scheme stays the same.

That's okay. HV can grow and mature all within its vision of web 
development.

>>>PS. I am giving HttpView an overhaul right now, has just made it work
>>>with the new Komanche from Stephen and I am also simplifying some stuff
>>>etc.
>>
>>I look forward to seeing the new HV and the new articles.
> 
> Thanks!
>  
>>I've been considering installing it, but didn't know what conflicts 
>>there would be with Kom6.x.
> 
> Well, the current release doesn't work with Kom6.2. But the one on my
> laptop does. :) I just need to test the more advanced Form stuff - there
> might be differences in how Comanche operates there.
> 
>>I've just read your two articles. I look forward to others.
> 
> So... did you like the articles? :-)

Yes I did.
Just wanted more. :)
But I can wait.

>>Pantera is good? Yes!!!
> 
> It has always been my childhood dream car. And I actually saw one for
> sale from 1971 with 400hp (this was about 15 years ago) for $14000.

I was shocked to see a Swedish man say that about Volvo.
I like Volvos. Don't own one, I've never seen a 15 passenger version. :)

I haven't seen a Pantera in probably over 20 years.
And I've never seen one like in your link. WOW!

Volvos aren't Panteras but they aren't the old 144s any more either. :)

I always thought the old 60s 70s Volvo sports car looked interesting.
At least I did 20+ years ago. :)

Jimmie




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