On 14 déc. 04, at 21:18, Jeffrey T. Read wrote:

> On Dec 14, 2004, at 2:38 PM, Andreas Raab wrote:
>>
>> No Nihilism. Just calm reasoning. The list has gotten a constant 
>> source of frustration where it used to be a source of inspiration and 
>> if that's so one needs to ask oneself if it's actually worth spending 
>> that much time on it (it's not like I have nothing else to do). And 
>> given the recent discussion it feels like my interests are so out of 
>> sync with the prevailing opinion around here that I'm the lonely 
>> trouble maker. If that's the case then what better thing to do than 
>> to let go? It's not that I wouldn't work on the aspects that interest 
>> me - just that I'd shut up and let you guys go your way. The more I'm 
>> thinking about it, the more sense this makes to me.
>>
>
> Actually, I'm with you on this one, Andreas: I mean the whole point of 
> Squeak it seems, is to be a MULTIMEDIA smalltalk, yes? If people are 
> going to strip it down to the bare essentials because they're more 
> interested in software engineering, Web development, or something like 
> that, that's OK for their own stuff but if they want to build Squeak 
> they need to be inclusive of the things which make Squeak Squeak: that 
> includes things like etoys, Wonderland, the sound synth stuff, etc. I 
> mean if you want Cincom, you know where to find it.

Hi jeffrey
sorry but what kind of &^&*^^%%  are you talking about?
Have you read that by accident?

3.9 Full

	- new multimedia app (Ogg reader?)
	- YAXO (p) a real one on SqueakSource :) (yes this is a subliminal 
message :))
	- Wonderland back in shape (you see mark there are room) / 3DBalloon
	- and anything that is valuable for full
	- GENIE (yes ned we want that)
	- Connectors (yes yes we want that too)
	-> ned would it be possible to get access to one your recent Genie 
image?
	- but people will have to provide package in MC format (or at least a 
good sar)

Now if you are into multimedia please take your keyboard and code. Code 
anything related to improving Squeak in multimedia area and we will all 
applause. Stop talking and do something.

"DO YOU THINK THAT IF WE LEAVE ANDREAS WILL BE MORE ADVANCED ON THE 
MULTIMEDIA LEVEL?"
JUST CURIOUS! WHERE ARE THE OTHERS? WHO DID ALL THE HARVESTING OVER THE 
LAST YEARS?

DO YOU SEE MY POINTS? WE DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING AGAINST MULTIMEDIA WE ARE 
JUST BAD AT IT.

I think that Michael in the other email got really well the situation.

"If there are programmers willing and able to work on multi-media 
aspects, they will need to adjust to a changing core, or they can argue 
that the core is fine, and needs no changes.  As I see it either 
Stephane and company can either improve the core of Squeak, with others 
helping for the multi-media changes, or they will be forced to start a 
separate Smalltalk project, and the Squeak community risks losing not 
just them, but those that are interested in the core more than 
multi-media.  If that happens, the core could stagnate, and so on.  I 
applaud Stephane and company for coming back to working with this 
community, and Andreas for questioning how to keep the multi-media 
aspects functional and improving as well.  If the multi-media types 
bail that is the same as a fork, it is just a silent one."

Are you all silly or just like talking because this is easier?


> To me, Squeak is about breaking new ground in the world of human 
> computer interaction. The future of the computer interface is in using 
> all of your senses, especially vision and hearing and perhaps touch; 
> and kinaesthetic and motor responses. We will go from an abstract 
> level where you use the "thinking part of your brain" to get things 
> done, to a more fundamental level which is based on feeling, instinct, 
> and inspiration. Squeak is at the wavefront of this tremendous 
> phenomenon; and as such, until something better comes along to 
> supplant them (Tweak? Croquet?) Morphic, Etoys, and Wonderland are all 
> VERY MUCH a part of Squeak.

Now if andreas can also lose the guys that are willing to help to 
improve squeak he should just say it and this is really simple.

I'm now REALLY pissed off by this kind of sterile attitude. Bye

Stef