Magma

Nevin Pratt nevin at bountifulbaby.com
Fri Jul 9 21:45:26 UTC 2004


I must say that I thoroughly enjoyed Chris' post.  His reply also shows 
he has the pride, tenacity, and determination to make Magma a 
world-class product.  I believe he'll do it (if he hasn't already-- I 
guess I need to look at Magma).

I always view "add-ons" with skepticism for "bread and butter" 
production use, because of the potential support issue if problems 
arise.  I went through the same skepticism with Seaside before becoming 
convinced.  Chris' spunky reply goes a long way towards convincing me 
that Magma likewise is worthwhile.

Nevin



Chris Muller wrote:

>Hi all!  I just got back from vacation and see all this hoopla about Magma!
>
>First of all, I am rather taken aback by some of the comments I am reading
>here.  If someone has a problem with Magma, I WANT TO KNOW ABOUT IT.  I
>regularly scan the list for posts about Magma and always reply to every email
>anyone sends me almost always within 24 hours.  I want to *engage* anyone who
>is interested in it to ensure they have a positive experience with it.
>
>Let me state, as clearly as I can, what I believe about the stability of
>1.0gamma7 when run with a 3.7VM on a 3.7 image.
>
>    *** NO KNOWN ISSUES ***
>
>Of course, I'm not saying there are no issues, but in *my* use of it, it works
>very well.  If someone finds otherwise, then please *speak up* by posting on
>this list or emailing me and I'll fix it or get you going promptly.  I work
>with Magma every day and it works great for me for what I use it for.
>
>Ok, I just saw Ramiro's stack trace.  Folks, the deal with 1.0gamma7 in 3.7 is
>the same old becomeForward: bug that I reported in Squeak years ago.  It's been
>a long, hard-fought effort to get it acknowledged by the community, and we're
>almost there!  As of now, we are only waiting for the new VM to be compiled. 
>If you want to use 1.0gamma7 then email me and I'll mail you a custom VM you
>can use until the new one is available.
>
>Avi wrote:
>  
>
>>Certainly, my experience with Magma was similar to yours: I 
>>was excited by the idea of a pure-Squeak OODB, but ran into errors I 
>>didn't understand right off the bat,
>>    
>>
>
>Avi, you only worked with Magma waay early on, didn't you?  There were a couple
>of "user-errors" you ran into that were not well-explained by Magma's error
>handling at that time, and were since been improved quite some time ago.  I
>think your comments above may be a bit dated.
>
>  
>
>>...rather than diving into the large and frankly daunting Magma codebase.
>>    
>>
>
>I guess I have trouble understanding what the issue is with the "size" of the
>codebase.  If you have an issue with the complexity, that's fine, although any
>OODB, including GOODS, is going to need to perform the behaviors that Magma
>does *somewhere*.  Specifically, the behavior of:
>
>  Magma client requires the behavior of:
>    a client/server framework, which requires the behavior of:
>      object-serialization, which requires the behavior of:
>        traversing-object graphs
>
>None of these behaviors are available in base Squeak the way Magma needs them,
>so I developed independent modules to handle each responsibility.  I feel it is
>well-layered and well-factored, if you or anyone thinks otherwise then tell me
>why and I'll make efforts to improve it.  I break the packages up by how they
>can be used independently of Magma.  **THIS IS A GOOD THING**  Why do you keep
>bringing up the "size" of the codebase as a problem?
>
>I can think of no reason anyone should need to get into the code for Magma
>anyway.  If you find a problem and you don't want to try to debug it yourself,
>let me know and I'll help you the best I can.
>
>===
>
>Let me say, no matter what anyone else thinks about it, *I* will continue to
>use Magma for *my* projects.  I know how reliable it is; and I'm starting to
>build some serious programs on it that I will be releasing later this year.
>
>Darn it, I'm sorry if I sound defensive here..  Obviously, I've put a lot of
>work into Magma (years) so it troubles me when it is misunderstood or misused. 
>I want to do whatever I can to help anyone who wants to use it.  Anyone who
>gives it a chance and give me a chance, I think that person will be rewarded.
>
> - Chris
>
>
>
>  
>

-- 
Nevin Pratt

Bountiful Baby
http://www.bountifulbaby.com
The Most Complete Reborn Supply Store On The Web!

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