On 03/02/05 22:53, "Cees de Groot" <cg at cdegroot.com> wrote:

> I've been busy shrinking a 3.6(wx) image today. What a mess.
> 
> My definitive, permanent, and irreversible conclusion is that writing
> package unloading/shrinking methods is probably even a more senseless
> activity than clubbing seals or writing Java code.
> 
> I think that this is a very wrong way for moving towards a more managebly
> sized image. The community will probably take a couple of years to write,
> and maintain, package unload/discard methods (because the targets will be
> constantly changing - try any Removal method from SqueakMap and you'll see
> what I mean), and when there's a small image, at last, all that work can
> be, err, discarded. What a waste.
> 
> My suggestion for whatever version comes next:
> - Take an existing 2Mb or so image (Edgar De Cleene has a 5429 image that
> includes MVC, tools, networking);
> - Read the update stream since the image was made and filter out
> everything that doesn't apply to that image;
> - Apply the rest;
> - Publish what was applied and what not for review;
> - Publish, test, and call that 3.x core.
> - Have some people pledge to build distributions based on that image. I
> will happily work towards building a wxSqueak and a Seaside distro.
> - Take it from there.
> 
> Personally, I fear that trying to strip something that doesn't want to be
> stripped will take a lot of time, waste a lot of energy, raise a lot of
> frustration, and will not have a better end result than following the
> route I propose above. That route will hurt a lot initially and will
> require a lot of politics etcetera to keep teams from forking based on the
> old stuff (but at the moment, risks that people will fork out of
> frustration are just as big). But that will be done in maybe 6 months and
> then we can direct our energy towards actually doing useful stuff (better
> dependencies, universes, bringing in Traits, and for some die-hard 'Core
> Squeak' believers, tearing down even that 2Mb image).
Cees:
I working on how get small images from times of 3.4 and work I do with
German Boccoleri and Emilio Oca.
I 'm trying all tipes of images, doing testing, reading about dependencies,
etc.
As you said, and why Emilio long asking , not easy or automatic shrinking
ways.
Former Squeakers, like Jon, Boris, Aoron , Yosiki and of course Dan and
Craig do very good job and I learn from them.
I wish someone could so some pair programming with me, I wish having remote
debugging of small image.
Perhaps for my fault , I never could have Spoon working on my Mac .
All what I get is seeing control image, but no way to do something with
working image.
I'm now doing final test to SqueakDiet.
You wonder what is ?
Morphic Squeak using marvel Dan compressed sources,
With about 6 mb and 2.8 mb of sources you have a 95% equivalent of normal
Squeak 3.6.
When finished ,I put in http://tai42.xs4all.nl/~edgar
I think what members could acces with  SSH/SCP via sftp.
I also put finished rts images , the first from 3.4 times is
LogicCircus.RTS.image
So , stay tuned and if someone wish could email me to
edgardec2003 at ciudad.com.ar or to edgardec2001 at yahoo.com.ar.

Cheers

Edgar