[ANN][IMPORTANT] New leadership formed!

goran.krampe at bluefish.se goran.krampe at bluefish.se
Wed Feb 16 22:27:23 UTC 2005


Hi Russell and all!

"Russell Penney" <russell.penney at tincanct.com> wrote:
> Goran,
>    Thank you for this; you have gone a LONG way in answering my questions.
> BTW I have read this email and no others in the very long thread as I didn't
> want to 'taint' my viewpoint after reading yours.
> 
> I think there has been great misunderstanding, I have no idea if it is on
> your or my part or both. I have reread your email and I have to say I still
> see this as "your views will be overruled if it suits our purposes" BUT I
> could be wrong. It happens often! :)

That does not sound at all how we intend to work.
 
> Ah I know what the issue is; there are contradictions in what you are saying
> now and previous emails by you, others in the islands group and other in
> influence.

There are? Well, "other in influence" includes this whole list. :) But I
hope I am in accordance with the others in the group.

> Well maybe not contradictions, maybe because of the fact that
> there is no place that describes the feature list that will go into the next
> release of Squeak or in fact the goals of the next release.

True, there is no such list or place yet. Well, we have the presented
roadmap from Stephane as input, but to look at it, discuss it openly and
get it nailed is very high on our todolist.

> When I read the
> list, I see Namespaces, Traits, Spoon and several others as accepted goals
> for Squeak in the next few releases. This is coming from people I associated
> with being Guides and therefore keepers of the sacred destiny. So I believe
> that, maybe I shouldn't. 

Eh... where do you read that? I am guessing it is a big super wish list
that perhaps Stephane and crew has presented as long term interesting
goals. None of them were Guides btw.

> If you have read my emails lately, I have point blank suggested that the
> guides SHOULD be guiding. There is a difference between guiding and
> benevolent dictatorships however. What is the process if a large proportion
> of the community disagree with the islands group?

That will be worked out. We just got started, the processes are still
forming.

And also - we intend to work using open discussion as this community has
been used to doing for the last few years. I think we will think twice
before painting ourselves into such a corner and trying to go agains a
"large proportion" of the community. Well, "large" is of course hard to
define. All decisions made will go against *someone*. :)

> In fact where are any of
> the processes we really need? Everyone talks about Debian and packaging,
> they have RULES, and we do not. Fix that and you have got me backing you up
> 100%.

Well, I am pretty sure that packaging, TFNR etc will be of very high
priority - as I hope everyone have seen given the recent discussions on
those topics in which we have been active.

Getting processes in place is one of our challenges. But given our
existence we might actually get it done.

> Hmmmm I have read and reread your statement. I have written and re-written
> several extensions to this email. Frankly I am tired and I dont think there
> is anything I can say that will change or divert this occurrence. So I will
> bow out and let whatever happens, happen. Maybe I am just being negative ;)

Well, I am sorry to say it - but yes. :) It is all quite simple (let me
simplify it a bit):

We are a group of people standing up offering our time and effort, for a
limited temporary time, to the community taking a much higher degree of
responsibility than the Guides ever did or any other group has done
since 2002. But you can't take responsibility without also take the
decisions. Do you want this offer?

And of course it is all based on us delivering what we say we will.

> All I will say is PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE be inclusive of this community, there
> are a LOT of people making good suggestions that are not being acknowledged
> by the "in" crowd (and yes I strongly believe there is one).

This goes without saying. Some of you think we are going to run all over
you guys like some mad bandits. Get real. :) We are the same guys that
have been working and discussing things for years in this community.

I still don't get what is meant by the "in" crowd. Is that some subset
of people on this list that in your view has more influence on the
community than the rest?

> Oh for those who maybe don't have English as a first language, an "in" crowd
> is a clique with influence, you know that group of popular kids at school
> who made it hell for us nerds :)

Ok, well, I kinda guessed, but I still don't understand *who* they are.
:) Level of influence is coupled to tons of aspects - it is not
something you can be given nor take.
 
> Russell

regards, Göran



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