stéphane ducasse wrote:
>> Hi, interesting work on BotInc and programming books
>> for kids. Thanks for pointing me there.
>>
>> I looked through the book at:
>> http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~ducasse/Web/Books/BotTheRobot.pdf
>> and it seems ambitious and richly illustrated.
> 
> 
> And I'm working on the copy edit version. It will be coooooler :)
> 
>> How old are the kids you have worked with for this book?
> 
> 
> 11 to 15
> 
>> How would you say they cope with syntax errors (typos)
>> in the code?
> 
> 
> My wife said that this was not a problem
> they were lazy and typed x instead of caro
> 

Sounds typical for teenagers!

>> I guess that using Smalltalk is an advantage
>> if you want to really learn Squeak, but I am curious about
>> how the kids manage to handle errors.
> 
> 
> I was not in the classrooms.
> But I got no complain on that side. We got more like
> the turtle is boring, some realllllly like that.
> Some did mistakes like
> 
> square
>     2500 timesRepeat: [self turn: 90; go: 100]
> 
> and complained that is was slow. So this is why we decoupled the
> loops and fun with variables chapter.
> 

I guess that when they are as old as 11-15 the kids can quite
easily spot their typing mistakes. On the other hand, university
students often have problems with that... :)

> 
>> I currently work on a programming tool for children that
>> uses comic strips to represent program actions. This tool
>> is based on research I made with 10 and 11 year old kids.
>> You can read about that here:
>> http://www.ida.liu.se/~mikki/comics/index.html
> 
> 
> Would like to come to esug to present that during the educator day?
> 

That would be great, it is Aug 13 to Aug 20, right? It said May 1
as the deadline for submissions on www.esug.org.

>>
>> Will make some screenshots of the new tool, and as soon
>> as I have a version that I feel is ready for testing I will
>> let you know.
> 
> 
> OK I have small boys at home too :)
> 
>> I also work together with a student that implements a
>> visual programming tool that uses predefined behaviours,
>> rather than comic strips. This tool is going to be tested
>> with children during this Spring. Will make this tool
>> available as soon as we have some documentation for it.
> 
> 
> Excellent let us know.
> 
>> Both these programming tools are intended to enable kids
>> (and adults) to make their own interactive worlds and games.
>> The primary purpose is not to teach programming/math/thinking,
>> but to develop easy to use creative tools.
> 
> 
> Ok my objective was programming since this is the only thing I know :)
> 
>> Kids have always been able to make their own home made toys
>> (dolls, cars, boats, etc). While these toys might not
>> look as polished as ready-made toys, I am sure that they
>> make their creators proud and satisfied of having made
>> something with their own hands.
>>
>> With computer games this is different. It is too hard to
>> program a game for a kid. For me this is a question of
>> democracy, kids should not just be passive consumers when
>> it comes to interactive software programs, they should
>> be able to build their own software worlds.
>>
>> One big reason I decided to use Squeak is the interest in
>> the Squeak community for kids and programming. And Squeak
>> is a good tool for developing new kinds of tools.
>>
>> There are many good programming tools that can be used
>> by kids, for example ToonTalk, GameMaker, StageCast Creator,
>> BotInc, and eToys. What I hope to contribute with my work
>> is an even easier to use programming model that is very
>> direct and visual, with a close integration between
>> painting and programming, like a programmable painting tool.
> 
> 
> I'm eager to see that.
> 

Hang on.

>> Another interesting project I am involved in is writing
>> a book about ToonTalk for children and families. (This book
>> is in Swedish, but if successful it will be translated to
>> other languages.)
> 
> 
> Good luck since this is a daunting task.
> 

Yes, much more work than I anticipated.

>> I think that it is sad that programming is not a mainstream
>> activity for kids. There are few books and magazines, and
>> few commercial products. Sims is a success, but you can
>> not program your Sims. You kind of guide and teach them,
>> perhaps this is a model for programming that could be
>> explored further? As an example, I recently played Sims
>> with a nine year old girl, and she was very skilled at
>> making the characters in the game fall in love and kiss
>> and so on. She knew exactly which commands to chose, and
>> she seemed to greatly enjoy this. I guess the distance
>> between her world and the game world is very short, and
>> her identification with the characters helps and motivates
>> when learning how to play. Perhaps a world like BotInc could
>> be expanded with new kinds of characters in addition to robots,
>> to give a Sims-like appeal.
> 
> 
> Yes but you know I'm doing that the night and now I'm fed up
> by it. Seriously. I want to do something else.
> 
>> In general, I do not like pre-made content. I think kids
>> should make their own content, draw their own characters
>> and so on, and use their creativity. But content do have
>> a strong appeal, it can be great fun to explore a world
>> of characters and objects. A program tool could support
>> both making your own characters and a library of predefined
>> characters.
> 
> 
> I agree now I did not have john maloney to program my idea
> and morphic is not simple to program (when you want to do
> what I have in mind).
> 
>> Lets stay in touch. Is there any particular conference or
>> workshop you would recommend to attend? Perhaps we could
>> meet there?
> 
> 
> ESUG at Brussels contact rita she is the main organizer of the edu event
> 

Great, I will send in a submission.

Best, Micke