The leaders (was Re: Smalltalk and Self)

goran at krampe.se goran at krampe.se
Mon Sep 5 08:44:25 UTC 2005


Hi!

Blake <blake at kingdomrpg.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 00:32:54 -0700, <goran at krampe.se> wrote:
> 
> > I know all about Swiki, been coding around in it even - and have used a
> > 600-page Swiki for about 5 years. But no, the new website is being built
> > using SmallWiki - a new implementation. And then there is SmallWiki2 -
> > an even newer not yet available implementation.
> >
> > And then I also have a wiki codebase inside my HomepageBuilder app -
> > which I actually have been thinking of stripping down to a really simple
> > and efficient hackable wiki-implementation to share with all.
> 
> I guess I don't really "get" the wiki thing. (I like swiki because I can  
> happily run one without knowing about it.) So, there's a working  
> implementation that has been neglected for a newer, flaky implementation, 

No, not "neglected" - the new SmallWiki was chosen partly (I think)
because it offers the ability to make a custom look. And the flakiness
was not known when the choice was made - it is according to others quite
stable when running in VW.

> which in turn is being replaced by a newer, not working implementation.  

No, we are not moving the website to SmallWiki2 - I just mentioned that
there is a newer radically different SmallWiki being implemented.

> And you're talking about making another?<s>

No, I am saying I already have wiki-code in my application which could
be split out to a working wiki-implementation - and it would be
interesting to have for other reasons:

1. It is much easier to hack. (If you have tried hacking Swiki, you know
what I mean)
2. It would be much smaller.
3. It would have other features and areas of uses than Swiki has. For
example, the pages are structured in a hierarchy and it offers a nice
foldable toc using that hieararchy, etc.

I am not proposing this yet as a solution to the new website - simply
because I don't have the time and I also think that the SmallWiki issues
*should be solvable*. Now, SmallWiki-people, help! :)
 
> My pappy used to say--he was a bit-farmer during days of the ol'  
> data-rush--that folks'd much rather build something new than try to  
> understand something old. Then he'd spit punchcard chad on the porch. I  
> reckon he was right.

As I have said - I have hacked inside Swiki - have you? So I understand
the implementation quite well and no, it was not something I could build
on top of for my HomepageBuilder app.

SmallWiki was also a rewrite of Swiki using SmaCC instead of a
very-hard-to-understand-and-even-harder-to-modify-wiki-parser, so it too
had reasons for being made. And AFAIK SmallWiki2 has a new design
completely - so it is also not just a "remake".

Anyway, that isn't the issue here. :)

regards, Göran



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