New SqueakMap on the air... and we got problems Houston!
goran at krampe.se
goran at krampe.se
Thu Apr 6 11:45:25 UTC 2006
Hi Andreas!
Andreas Raab <andreas.raab at gmx.de> wrote:
> Hi Goran,
>
> >> It simply means that older versions of the client are capable of dealing
> >> with newer data sets coming from the server, so that the clients don't
> >> need to be updated in sync with the server. There are many good reasons
> >> for this; the most important one being that people like to be able to
> >> decide when they want to upgrade instead of being forced to.
> >
> > Well, I for one don't want to have multiple versions of SM running out
> > there trying to make sense of the model coming from the latest version
> > running on the server. It sounds way too risky for my taste.
>
> Well, that's like saying it's way to risky that people use different
> browsers for displaying web content and *force them* to install IE 7
> when they want to look at a random page.
Well, SM does more than "looking" (if IE 5 renders a page ugly it
doesn't hurt that much - if SM screws up installing things it hurts
more) and I am aiming for it to do even more in the future - actually
modifying the map (getting rid of the web UI for modifying the map and
instead letting client images upload modified SMObjects in XML form - at
least that is the plan this hour).
> And "oh, by the way" one of the
> reasons why I'm in this discussion is that SM is currently just the
> icing on the cake of all the issues that I'm dealing with in the Croquet
> release. Its attempt to forcefully update itself in an environment it
> knows relatively little about only leads to problems.
I can buy that. But doesn't it actually ask? Anyway, I know what you
mean.
> I'm actually on
> the verge of removing SM last minute; the way it's right now with the
> 2.1 client not working and 2.2 failing to install
AFAIK you haven't yet mentioned 2.2 failing to install. I just tried it
though (in Croquet) and I noted you are forbidding underscores as
assignments - that was at least one issue (and I now changed the
underscores in the load script). Hmmm, let me test again btw...
...yes, ok, it works fine (unless I have missed something) if you first
do:
Preferences enable: #allowUnderscoreAssignment
:)
But I can clean those underscores up of course, anyone got a nice script
that *works* :) to do that?
> it's really not very
> attractive to carry that much dead code around. (but I'll wait with that
> decision simply because I had a *very bad* day today and perhaps I feel
> different later).
Sure.
> > Ok, I understand what you mean - but I still don't like the effects. If
> > we move towards an XML format (which I now really intend to do unless
> > someone comes up with a brilliant alternative) then yes, we would at
> > least have a sporting chance of making the client side "work" with a map
> > coming from a newer server but... it would also mean that different
> > images will behave differently. And it could mean that bugs will pop up
> > like "oh, right, darn, didn't think of that - it works in SM 2.31 and
> > 2.33+ but you are right, it would barf in 2.32".
>
> Well, isn't that called testing?! ;-) Maybe a few tests would help to
> automate the process?! ;-))
I know. :) Yes, I should write some tests for SM.
> Actually, I'm only partly kidding - it seems
> pretty clear that any version you want to support needs at least a
> rudimentary amount of support and testing but if there are people out
> there interested in a particular system I'm sure they'll give you the
> feedback you need.
Sure, but I agree - I should add tests.
> > Sure, I can make the code do a "hey, this tag is odd - lets skip
> > it"-kinda thing, but I still will reserve the "right" for the client to
> > say - "nope, sorry, this model is too new for me, at leat the author
> > thinks so - press yes to go ahead, and have fun in the debugger when SM
> > trashes your image". :)
>
> And that's perfectly reasonable, though, in my experience fairly
> unlikely if you start out with the goal of supporting future versions.
[SNIP]
Well, I am convinced to at least give it a shot. And it will be much
easier when we have moved to a "declarative" format like XML.
regards, Göran
More information about the Squeak-dev
mailing list
|