some news

stéphane ducasse ducasse at iam.unibe.ch
Sat Apr 22 08:34:25 UTC 2006


What hilaire and me said is that pushing the idea that python people  
should reimplement squeak and etoys
is not really cool for our community, let us face it! The point was  
not to push your own language and fight for that, just to show
the good aspects you have. So it was surprising and boring after a  
while to hear Alan systematically saying that they should redo
everything in Python. I feel that this is counter productive and this  
is also why I say that if their goal is to teach maths to kids
then they should focus on the contents not on the technology, so if I  
would have the same goal I would build a set of cool tools:
Kara, BostInc, Logo, Etoys, Karel, DrScheme, Python... and encourage  
the building of contents and not to focus on
a technology.

I strongly believe that the effort we are doing to tighen up Squeak  
will help people to build new environment and new environments for  
kids too. For example the Pier logo wiki is a clear example of that.
The work that Craig is doing can be the foundation for a really tiny  
core on top of which we could build a complete new set
of worlds, Sophie and Tweak are also really sexy and we should find a  
way to integrate that (I'm really for helping moving
Tweak when it is ready into Squeak if Tweakers want that).

Then hearing argument that python is the way to go because they are  
mainstream was fun (because you can always use an argument only when  
it is ok to apply it to you), because C or Java are much more  
mainstream.

Now there are a lot of cool material already existing in Scheme for  
example (Structure and interpretation of computer program, how to  
design program to name a few with the excellent DrScheme  
environment). Now of course you can reimplement everything in your  
own cool language because this is the only one that is important and  
mainstream.




> Hi Stef,
>
> just for understanding - you and Alan want to say that
>
> - everyone which is interested is welcomed for giving new ideas how  
> to make education, regardless of his favoured system/language
> - the implementation is not important - if someone want to use  
> python, to bring in his ideas he should do so
> - reinventing or reengineering always gives the chance to think   
> once more about it - from a new point of view. Nothing is really  
> ready.
>
>
> Something like this ?
>
> Regards
>
> Hans
>
> Am 22.04.2006 um 09:14 schrieb stéphane ducasse:
>
>> If you think about it the sad part is not really there.
>> I do not believe that teaching etoy, logo, botsinc really help  
>> kids learning maths as with a teacher: They have fun, they are  
>> emerged into maths, they are not afraid which is already a lot.   
>> Instead of investing in language people should invest
>> in contents: the right exercise to teach the right concepts.
>> Right now what you see (even if etoy) is that they are really few  
>> good material. I translated the book of Kim and some french  
>> teachers were happy and then asked the killing question: the start  
>> was fun so what where is the contents?
>> Besides driving a car....(i pointed them to the graph basket ball  
>> thingies but this is not enough).
>> So if Ubuntu people think that they can substitute the writing and  
>> development of a math curriculum, with
>> a "come with me play stuff" developed in any language, this means  
>> that this is a view of programmer (bold of course and full of
>> enthousiasm) and I wish them success, because I think that the  
>> contents in any format is more important.
>>
>> May living and being surrounded by teachers biaised my view of the  
>> world...
>>
>
>
>




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