Stef's departure from the SqueakFoundation board

Andreas Raab andreas.raab at gmx.de
Sat Aug 19 22:28:15 UTC 2006


Hi all -

stéphane ducasse wrote:
> And I hated the remark that we should do it for fun... sure harvesting 
> bugs is so incredibily fun and give us so much energy!!!! ...duh?
> Look at marcus state of mind now.

Do it for fun or don't do it at all. Unless you're getting paid there is 
just no point in ruining yourself over it. Coincidentally, I have made 
that point a couple of times to Marcus, too. But both of you seem to be 
people who have a very, very hard time to let go. Even just a little.

>>      As Stef says, the Foundation received a donation from ESUG in the
>> past, at his behest. Later, when ESUG initiated its "SummerTalk" program
>> (after a failed last-minute bid for Google sponsorship), Stef
>> effectively demanded that the Foundation sponsor SummerTalk projects. He
>> threatened us with a negative reaction from ESUG if we didn't use its
>> donation in that way (as he reiterates below).
> 
> I never said that. I never threatened anybody about that.

Maybe you are unaware about the impact of your English but a statement 
like "I will report to the ESUG board the situation and they will 
certainly not agree to give more money for SqF and they will be right." 
coming from a member of the ESUG board *is* a threat. If you're still 
the president (http://www.esug.org/about/boardelectedin2004/) it would 
be even more of a threat.

> I just said 
> that I could not decently ask ESUG to give us money if we do nothing 
> with it. The same for other sponsors. I would feel bad to contact people
> and ask them to financially support us if we do not have
> results to show or at least projects to spend the money on.

Well, yes. But you start out with the assumption that you're going to 
raise money regardless of whether the money is needed or not (an 
attitude I know from my university days - first get money, then figure 
out what to do, then get more ;-) This is not necessarily the right 
attitude for the SqF. If the SqF comes up with an idea that requires 
funding, then it may be time to go get it. In the mean time, in 
particular if there is no agreement on how to spend any money, it is 
probably wiser not to raise any money to avoid precisely the kind of 
frustration you're describing.

> ESUG gave money to squeak.e.v and we never ask what they did with it. 
> Now if Squeak.e.v wants more money ESUG will ask what for.

Yes. ESUG should *always* ask what the money is for. You must be living 
in a different world if people give you money without asking what it's for.

>>        It's great that the beginner list is a success. However, I don't
>> think it makes sense to tie the merit of one idea (bounties) to the
>> success of another (the beginner list) simply because the same person
>> advocated them both.
> 
> I was not. 

Yes you were. Just like you were trying to tie the previous pragma 
discussion with Lukas to the current discussion about FFI syntax now. 
You're doing it all it all the time.

> We never ask for rewards or congratulation. We asked for notice that
> the situation cannot continue like that and that this is important to help
> there and since really few people take care of squeak release and 
> integration then this is not these people (me and marcus) that will
> have the time to do it.

I think it's time for both of you to get out of it for a while (see 
above). Finish up 3.9 and let the board deal with it - if the board is 
really as incapable as you seem to think it'll show really quickly. In 
the mean time I happen to think that someone a little less ... ugh ... 
involved, might be a better person to deal with releases. Less coding, 
more management, if you know what I mean. Do we have any producers / 
product manager types out there?

>>      Stef, I'm disappointed that you feel as you do, and wish you
>> success and fulfillment in however you choose to spend your time.
> 
> You are so kind and I'm so nasty.

Indeed, this is precisely the way it comes across. Craig wrote a great 
memo, laying out the issues in what I thought was a remarkably objective 
and detailed way. Spreading insults in return does make you look rather 
nasty.

Cheers,
   - Andreas



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