On Sat, Oct 14, 2006 at 10:41:52AM +0200, Lord ZealoN wrote:
> Well, sometimes I send this to the maillist but never get answers.
> 
> I would like to know your opinion about this.
> 
> Squeak/Smalltalk is powerful, but for users, or developers in other
> environments (VB, C, Java etc..), looks like a toy. No games on it, No
> "famous" app's. All, etoys for kids and a mouse as logo. I think the
> squeak "world" needs changes, remove pinks colors in the image, and a
> large etc...

This may get me in trouble, but I will make a bold claim:

Squeak is a toy. That is a good thing.

Squeak is a toy, and therefore it looks like a toy. Aversion to
toys is (in my not-so-humble opinion) the worst thing that is
taught to programmers (adults?) today. Playing is the only way
to make new ideas. One must enjoy playing before they can
understand the purpose of Squeak. Until they realize "Squeak is
a Toy, and I am OK with that", they are missing the point. A
clean object memory, simple syntax, and easy debugging are just
implementation issues. The point of Squeak is to have fun
building; after that, everything else falls into place.

Most programmers (myself included) have been brainwashed by
companies invading the school system with their agenda. That is
why terrible things like java are allowed to exist. We are told:

- Everyone wants a consistent interface
- You need complicated software to develop software
- You need to go through the university system to be a
  programmer
- Stay away from fast-moving platforms (i.e., the living and
  active ones with real ideas)
- Don't play with toys; do your work

Alan Kay has asserted that businesses are not very creative and
are stuck in a rut. He says that the only way to make progress
is to get un-brainwashed minds (mostly children) into the realm
of programming. 

Most programmers have spent most of their time writing the same
code over and over again, and have come to believe that that is
the only way to be productive. Creativity is long-gone. In my
opinion, overcoming the user interface is the least of our
problems; much more difficult is to overcome the ingrained
behavior of sticking with the old, stable, and dead
platforms that have proliferated the programming world.

Computers are much newer than most people would like to think.
Like Alan Kay said, it took 150 years after the printing press
was invented for newspapers to become common. Before that, they
were only used to do old tasks, like print Bibles.

Computers today are only used (by most people, businesses, and
programmers) to do old tasks, like communication, documentation,
and art creation. The new ability that computers have, which is
hardly used or even acknowledged, is the ability to think.
Computers and humans together, can think in ways that were
impossible before. Scientists have some understanding of that
ability, but, the more programmers solve the task at hand, the
less we will solve the real problem, which is thinking in a new
way.

Computer-aided thinking is the problem that Squeak and EToys are
designed to solve. It is pretty much the only system with that
goal in mind, and few people even realize that there is a
problem. This is the real issue that confronts people who are
not familiar with Squeak: understanding that it solves a real
problem. The color scheme is not the issue.

Thus I think that looking like a toy is a good thing. However,
there is always value in meeting the others halfway, so another
color scheme is a good idea.

> Oficial web need's a change, more modern (smalltalk.org too, looks
> like an abandoned project, and the news about the projects are old) ),
> writen in smalltalk. About the logo, I sugggest one time, would be
> interesting thath Squeak take a logo like squeakfoundation.

Yes, the web person recently left, and his position has not been
filled yet.

> More developers means (not always but...) more packages, more tools,
> more code, more ideas. And I think we need change some things to get
> this.

Indeed. More developers will be able to help with the
implementation issues, and that is a very good thing. However,
we must not lose sight of the fact that Squeak is, and must be, a
toy that encourages exploration first, and practicality second.

> ?What do you think about this? ?How can I/we help with all of this?
> 
> I'm sure I'm not the only one with this things in her mind.
> 
> Cheers.
> -- 
> ::Mi blog::
> http://blog.lordzealon.com
> 
> Linux-User: #370919
> 
> 

-- 
Matthew Fulmer