On Sep 1, 2006, at 11:15 PM, J J wrote:


>
>> Also, I  hate being isolated from the rest of my desktop. I'm a  
>> mac  user. I like my mac. I like my mac apps. I wish Smalltalk  
>> could be  part of that environment. Visual Works gets a few points  
>> here. At  least it looks like a native interface (Though, the UI  
>> doesn't behave  in a consistently native manner--which can  
>> actually be more annoying  sometimes. And it doesn't run on intel  
>> macs yet.).
>>
>
> You points on the environment look are certainly valid (though I  
> don't mind
> it personally).  As far as isolation from the rest of the desktop,  
> let's look
> at how everyone else does it.
>
> In Java, C++, Ruby, Python, et. al. how does one build an application?
> 1. Determine what your application consists of (or what you think  
> it does)
> 2. Identify what code has already been written in this area (and  
> hopefully us
>      squeakmap like app to download/install it)
> 3.  Forevermore remember to import/#include/re/whatever to get the  
> code
>     you want visable to your system
> 4.  Develop the code (glue together the components, try new  
> components, etc)
> 5.  Package it up and deliver it to the customer.

<much snipped>

I'm not sure what this has to do with isolation from the rest of the  
desktop. Let me be clear, I wasn't talking about developing/coding  
issues, I was talking about using the UI.

While I'm coding, I inevitably need to check my e-mail, browse web  
pages, whatever (as research, of course--I'm not just playing  
around). I want to use those (and other tools) on my mac. Having the  
Squeak UI isolated from my OS UI makes rapid shuffling between  
browser windows and native OS tools more difficult than is absolutely  
necessary (at least for the way I typically work).

Also, having a separate UI means I need to learn two UIs. I have to  
constantly shift between the UIs. I have to maintain separate mental  
lists of efficiency tips for each UI. I have to remember which  
keystrokes go with which environment. Again, more work than is  
strictly necessary.

-Rich-