On Sep 8, 2006, at 12:35 AM, Bert Freudenberg wrote:

> Rich Warren schrieb:
>
>> How often is removing <lf> an issue.
>
> Often enough to not be done automatically. It took editors a lot of  
> time to become binary-safe, most still are not. You also need UI to  
> show which line end convention is active, and you need to provide  
> conversion methods.

Maybe I asked the wrong question. Can you give me an example where  
automatically replacing an invalid EOL character with a proper one  
(eg replace <cr><lf> with <cr> or replacing  a solitary <lf> with  
<cr>) results in a bug?

Can you show me an instance where having the <lf> causes a bug in the  
code?

The "uglified" code seems to work just fine, whether or not it has  
the <lf>'s.

>
>> How did the <lf>'s get into the code base to begin with?
>
> They were invisible.

No, this is "why are they still in the code base?" I asked a  
different question. How did they get in there in the first place? I  
doubt people entered <lf> at the keyboard. Did they get pasted into  
Squeak? Were they loaded from files? It seems like line normalization  
should be done at the port of entry.

>
>> You have yet to convince me
>
> I don't have to convince you of anything. You have to convince us  
> to change the status quo. A good implementation is very convincing ;-)

If you want me to agree with you, then you need to convince me.  
Sorry, I just assumed the first part of that sentence went without  
saying. If you don't care what I think, then no. You don't have to do  
anything.

>
>> To me, this seems like a poor design decision. I think there will  
>> be a lot of unforeseen consequences (for example, making Squeak  
>> incompatible with windows text files).
>
> It's as compatible as it ever was. The behavior is exactly the same  
> as in 3.8, but you now *see* that something is wrong.
>
> If in 3.8 you edit a windows CRLF file it appears fine. You press  
> return, which inserts a CR. You save the file, and *boom*, a wrong  
> line end in your file that other software may trip about. Like  
> notepad. And you saw *nothing* in the Squeak editor.

Yes, this is a bug, but it's a different bug. Arguably it's a lesser  
bug. The number of cases where it becomes an issue (open CRLF file in  
Squeak, modify file in Squeak, Save file, and then open in an  
external editor) is a subset of the cases where 3.9 causes problems  
(open CRLF file in Squeak).

So, 3.8 is more compatible, because at least it lets me open and read  
CRLF files transparently.

-Rich-