Hi Danil,

Thanks for making your points clear.
My "rant" was meant as a general remark -- to argue that without  
initiative the tools will not get better over night...
Here some background: I put a fair amount of time into a smooth  
integration of Traits into 3.9 (which I originally implemented for  
3.7)  and for example also made Monticello Traits-aware.
I also said that I cannot put work into the UI. Daniel, Andrew, and  
Tom then worked on the TraitsOmniBrowser but somehow the effort got  
stuck just a bit before being really usable out of the box. I think,  
people that are interested in using Traits and need a more  
sophisticated UI than the current OmniBrowser in 3.9 should join  
forces and improve the TraitsOmniBrowser. (This browser btw. has some  
other nice features unrelated to Traits as well.) I suggest to  
contact one of the original authors. In general, the SqueakSource  
repository has global write access so anybody can commit improvements.

Adrian

On Feb 21, 2007, at 13:04 , danil osipchuk wrote:

>
> I tried TraitsOmniBrowser and as I recall I could not be productive  
> with it.
> However it was half-year ago  and  I will take a fresh look.
> Adrian, sorry if my post sounded like a harsh complain (it was a  
> complain
> indeed), but my intent was not all that negative. I just wanted to  
> bring up
> this topic again (in a bit provocative way, I admit) and also to  
> stress two
> points:
>
> 1) There are people who care about traits and who appreciate any  
> work in
> this direction.
> 2) Discussions popup from time to time, in which traits benefits are
> questioned basing on the fact that they are not used widely,  
> although they
> are in the image for a quite a lot of time. I would like to counter  
> this
> train of thought by telling that we can not say traits concept failed,
> because nobody used them.
>
> So, please see my post in this context. I personally believe that  
> traits are
> benefitial and I would like to apply them and to see if it is true.
>
> Regarding the help, I would like to offer help in this case. In  
> fact when I
> miss something, I'm trying to do it silently myself. But in this  
> case I'm
> just not sure if I'm quilified - this is language infrastracture  
> topic and
> I'm more 'userland' kind of guy. But if you need help - could you  
> please
> describe what kind of help do you expect? If not me - probably other
> interested could jump in.
>
> Regards,
>   Danil
>
>
>
>
> Adrian Lienhard wrote:
>>
>> Have you tried TraitsOmniBrowser (http://www.squeaksource.com/
>> TraitsOmniBrowser.html)? Also, the OmniBrowser in the image has basic
>> support for Traits.
>> Of course the tools are not perfect. Instead of helping to improve
>> the situation people tend to complain. Unfortunately this will not
>> bring us forward. But hey, its not that important, is it?
>>
>> Adrian
>>
>> BTW, Monticello supports Traits too
>>
>>
>>
>
> -- 
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Squeak- 
> Foundation-Board-2007-Candidates-tf3253392.html#a9079698
> Sent from the Squeak - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>