Not very visible Squeak-dev set at squeak.org

J J azreal1977 at hotmail.com
Sun Jul 22 16:43:58 UTC 2007


Well how about this:  If you do your own DNS then host names are cheap.  We could have seaside.squeak.org, squeakland.squeak.org, fun.squeak.org along with the vanila squeak.org.  It would all be the same site, but the default download would depend on which name you have, since presumably, if you came via seaside you expect to download a seaside image.Just a thought.> From: mmille10 at comcast.net> To: squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org> Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 01:46:38 +0000> Subject: Re: Not very visible Squeak-dev set at squeak.org> > On 7/9/07, Hilaire Fernandes <hilaire at ofset.org> wrote:> > So, are there any reason the download link at the top right should not> > point to squeak-dev regularly-updated and useful-for-developer image ?> >> > After all for educative use, people should just be pointed to> > SqueakLand, right?> >> >> > Hilaire> >> > Serge Stinckwich a écrit :> > > mmille10 at comcast.net a écrit :> > >> "And to think, just yesterday there was a complaint that Squeak-dev> > >> (and  SqueakLight) were too visible and caused confusion about what> > >> was official."> > >>> > >> I had the thought that what might help is to categorize the downloads.> > >> I was thinking for the current official version, squeak.org could put> > >> it under "Education and Multimedia -- eToys, audio, video, Alice, 3D> > >> graphics". The developer image could be on the same page, categorized> > >> under "Seaside", and maybe "Smalltalk Coders/Hackers images", to make> > >> it more clear that this category is targeted at those who want to work> > >> on web projects, or at a lower level in the system. Each could provide> > >> a link for further explanation, talking about what each can be used> > >> for, if that seems necessary. Some visual cues would help, I'm sure,> > >> like showing a screenshot of what eToys looks like in the official> > >> version, with the classic "driving the car" demo.> > >> > >> > > Yes i agree about the categorization, but why categorize the last> > > current official version (3.9) under the category "Education &> > > Multimedia" ? Try to dl the 3.9 version. This is just a developer> > > version without the bells and whistles of the squeak-dev version. The> > > 3.8 could be categorize "Education & multimedia".> > >> > > -- Serge Stinckwich> > > http://doesnotunderstand.free.fr/> > People have been getting introduced to Squeak in various ways. They may have seen one of Alan Kay's demos online, as I did. They may have seen a Seaside demo given by one of a few people (I've seen these as well). They may have heard about Sophie, or Pier. There will be those (like me) who've heard about the full gamut of uses that have currently been found for it, and are interested in exploring it. They may come to squeak.org instead of squeakland.org.> > As I've been reading newbies' responses to Squeak, some things have become clear to me. While educators like the educational and multimedia features of Squeak, those who are more interested in developing applications, particularly for the web with Seaside or Pier, are generally not interested in those features. They're more interested in using Squeak as a development vehicle. They're focused on learning the language, how to use the code browsers, the debugger, Monticello, Seaside, Magritte, Glorp, etc.> > I understand the argument about directing people to Squeakland if they're interested in education and multimedia. Maybe that would be better. I am not experienced enough in Squeak to know if certain things in the 3.8 version have been improved from the version at Squeakland.> > The main reason I was suggesting the "selection" strategy is I have been hearing complaints from people who have heard about Seaside and want to try it, and they take one look at the default Squeak download and balk. Maybe it's not even squeak.org's fault, since they may have gotten their version from the Seaside site, and maybe they used the education/multimedia image. I don't know. In any case it doesn't speak to them. They came there to get a development tool that they heard was there, for a goal they had. They see it and dismiss it as a "child's toy", because it says to them, "Hi. I'm cute." That's not what they came to get. Personally I wasn't turned off by that, but I had more context.> > It seems to me there's a bit of a schism in the Squeak developer community. There are those who have fully embraced the vision of Squeak; who see it as a system to explore and change, and learn with. And then there are those who see Squeak as a powerful application development tool. I can sympathize with both sides, which is why I feel that presenting Squeak as satisfying both goals, with a different emphasis for each, will be welcoming to both groups.> > I think Serge is right about 3.8 vs. 3.9. I don't think 3.9 should be offered for both uses, at least not without bringing back the other flaps for the educational version.> > ---Mark> mmille10 at comcast.net> 
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