[ANN] AIDA/Web app server 5.4 beta released on Squeak

Janko Mivšek janko.mivsek at eranova.si
Thu Jun 14 16:48:13 UTC 2007

Hi Lukas,

Lukas Renggli wrote:

>> - Back button supported (really needed?)
> As long as IE has a back button, billions of people will press on that
> button every day. No matter if they have been told not to do so ;-)

That "really needed?" is a question about Seaside way of back button 
support, which is more like "Undo", at least as we can see from a 
counter example.

What I claim is that the users need back button just to go back in an 
information space where they come from. And that they always come back 
to that information in a consistent state.

For instance, if I confirmed and order and then go back to a previous 
page, this page need to show me that order is already confirmed (that's 
what Aida do) and not to "undo" my order (as Seaside obviously promote 
with counter example?)

>> - Not much OO, more procedural programming
> That must be a misunderstanding, this is completely wrong. Seaside was
> always a framework written from top to bottom with objects. It
> encourages users to use objects and provides a clean separation
> between model and view.

I admit that I forgot what I meant few years ago, but that statement in 
a bit different form:

- Not much web, more procedural programming

still stand. It is a critique on Continuations and its tree-like 
programing, which is just not natural for the web, because web is graph 
like (a directed graph of web pages)

>> - Url's not RESTlike
> The question about REST is more a religion than a technical question.
> Fact is,  Seaside supports RESTful URLs with little additional effort
> from the developer.

More about that later in answer to Gianni.

> More important is that Seaside provides a high abstraction over HTTP.
> Developers don't have to think about request, response, urls, unique
> parameter and field names, etc. Seaside does all that for you and let
> you concentrate on what you really need, your application.

That kind of abstraction is provided with Aida too. You also don't need 
to deal with requests, sessions, urls, fields etc. You just program web 
representations of your domain objects and that all.

>> - Crosslinking
>> - pages difficult
> I don't exactly understand what this means, but I think it is wrong (see 
> above).

Thats about richness of navigation support. In Aida you can just provide 
a reference to some domain object and you got a web link to it, while in 
Seaside you can point just forth and back to components in continuation 
stack and to other registered components, right? In Aida you just need 
to register a root object of your domain model, links to all other 
domain objects are automatic.

Best regars

Janko Mivšek
Smalltalk Web Application Server

More information about the Squeak-dev mailing list